UT will not get better

[JayVols]

Totally devoid of the truth.

Evidence available of Hart's capital call on the big boosters at the height of the coaching search. have seen the letter. One that never was completed because of Hart/Cheek's choice to use the $6 mill annual academic contribution until the new ESPN/SEC contract kicks in rather than give big boosters more say in the process.

This guy gets it.

There was much said that made it very clear that booster help was not welcome in any part of the process.

 

[Cartervol]

This guy gets it.

There was much said that made it very clear that booster help was not welcome in any part of the process.

I don't get that.. They're 200 million in the hole, boosters would have helped, they refuse the money and hire the 4 or 5th choice again.. If it goes bad these two need their walking papers asap.. Cheek should already be gone.. Hart hasn't impressed me either with how the hiring process went..

IMO they really needed someone to get the fans excited about.. This program has been beat down over the last 5 years and needed a kick start.. I think they failed in that regard..

 

[tm3]

I don't get that.. They're 200 million in the hole, boosters would have helped, they refuse the money and hire the 4 or 5th choice again.. If it goes bad these two need their walking papers asap.. Cheek should already be gone.. Hart hasn't impressed me either with how the hiring process went..

IMO they really needed someone to get the fans excited about.. This program has been beat down over the last 5 years and needed a kick start.. I think they failed in that regard..

I concur about what was needed, but, it becomes a philosophical question much like "compromising" or "bending" academics for the sake of athletics ... Should UT be indebted to a group of boosters with the inevitable consequence of loss of some control?

 

[JayVols]

I don't get that.. They're 200 million in the hole, boosters would have helped, they refuse the money and hire the 4 or 5th choice again.. If it goes bad these two need their walking papers asap.. Cheek should already be gone.. Hart hasn't impressed me either with how the hiring process went..

IMO they really needed someone to get the fans excited about.. This program has been beat down over the last 5 years and needed a kick start.. I think they failed in that regard..

I completely agree with what you say. It really doesn't make sense- unless having a consistent championship contending program isn't the top priority of some of the powers that be in Knoxville. Don't take that as a knock on Coach Jones. I didn't intend it to be at all.

I'm all for academics, but it seems like many prominent folks would rather be viewed as a poor man's Ivy League University at this time.

 

[whobethis16]

I don't get that.. They're 200 million in the hole, boosters would have helped, they refuse the money and hire the 4 or 5th choice again.. If it goes bad these two need their walking papers asap.. Cheek should already be gone.. Hart hasn't impressed me either with how the hiring process went..

IMO they really needed someone to get the fans excited about.. This program has been beat down over the last 5 years and needed a kick start.. I think they failed in that regard..

Because you hire an athletic director to run the athletic department. Manning doesn't run the Communications department just because he donated a million to it. You give, great. But you don't make decisions just because you have money.

 

[JayVols]

I concur about what was needed, but, it becomes a philosophical question much like "compromising" or "bending" academics for the sake of athletics ... Should UT be indebted to a group of boosters with the inevitable consequence of loss of some control?

I see where you are coming from. I don't think boosters should have the most control, but they should have a seat at the table. They didn't.

I just have one question- no malice, sarcasm, or smart alec intentions at all intended. Who would you, personally, trust to have the best interest of UT football at heart: 1. Former players/grads that have freely given millions to an institution dear to their hearts or 2. A Bama and UF graduate where it's just a job?

 

[johndoevol]

I see where you are coming from. I don't think boosters should have the most control, but they should have a seat at the table. They didn't.

I just have one question- no malice, sarcasm, or smart alec intentions at all intended. Who would you, personally, trust to have the best interest of UT football at heart: 1. Former players/grads that have freely given millions to an institution dear to their hearts or 2. A Bama and UF graduate where it's just a job?

Even if you are correct in your perception of Hart and Booger eater, I think they unknowingly hired the right coach for us. Time will tell.:hi:

 

[JayVols]

Because you hire an athletic director to run the athletic department. Manning doesn't run the Communications department just because he donated a million to it. You give, great. But you don't make decisions just because you have money.

I understand what you are getting at. I really do. I just question how committed those hired to do important jobs for UT are to doing what's best for UT rather than what's in their own best interest. They should be the same, but I really don't think they are in this case.

See how long these benefactors continue to donate those large sums when they are told that their opinions aren't welcome and they have no seat at the table.

 

[JayVols]

Even if you are correct in your perception of Hart and Booger eater, I think they unknowingly hired the right coach for us. Time will tell.:hi:

I truly hope you are right; he may be. Still, some folks at the top need to be ran out of town on a rail. No matter the views, I honestly believe we all here love UT. Why else would we passionately discuss it constantly? However, I am convinced that the leadership doesn't share this same affection and passion that we fans have.

As you said time will tell.I'm beyond sick of sucking.

 

[tm3]

I see where you are coming from. I don't think boosters should have the most control, but they should have a seat at the table. They didn't.

I just have one question- no malice, sarcasm, or smart alec intentions at all intended. Who would you, personally, trust to have the best interest of UT football at heart: 1. Former players/grads that have freely given millions to an institution dear to their hearts or 2. A Bama and UF graduate where it's just a job?

Great question JV and I don't take any offense. I honestly don't know the answer. Haslam has given 10s of millions and clearly has an influence. His influence seems to be counter to what you and I both want. He has stated publicly that he prefers UT to be more like VA, that is known for academics rather than football. He has also reportedly stated opposition to hiring "mercenary" coaches like Saban. Note also that all of the Gruden talk tanked the day before Thanksgiving, when LWS reported that a meeting occurred in which "Big Jim won, and Big Jim always wins." I personally don't want someone with that attitude having control over UT and the AD.

I think that the best case scenario is probably a lack of interdependence, as long as all of the parties involved are united in the common goal of working to feed the cash cow of UT football. I am told that is the bama system and it is working well.

 

[JayVols]

Great question JV and I don't take any offense. I honestly don't know the answer. Haslam has given 10s of millions and clearly has an influence. His influence seems to be counter to what you and I both want. He has stated publicly that he prefers UT to be more like VA, that is known for academics rather than football. He has also reportedly stated opposition to hiring "mercenary" coaches like Saban. Note also that all of the Gruden talk tanked the day before Thanksgiving, when LWS reported that a meeting occurred in which "Big Jim won, and Big Jim always wins." I personally don't want someone with that attitude having control over UT and the AD.

I think that the best case scenario is probably a lack of interdependence, as long as all of the parties involved are united in the common goal of working to feed the cash cow of UT football. I am told that is the bama system and it is working well.

I was surprised at Haslam's attitude. You're right, no one person/booster should have all the say. That gets you into Bobby Lowder territory. I do think that they should have some say as a group. They were pretty much told they wouldn't have a say.

 

[Other_Guy]

I would love to have that opportunity.

Don't get me wrong, I hope Jones tears it up. He seems like a good man and at the very least a decent coach (both improvements over our last coach) that jumped at the opportunity to coach a historically significant program in the elite conference. I respect that. That shows some moxy given the last few years, and I wish him nothing but the best. However, the hire was about control, absolute control. Look at how much money was involved and where the money, the only money, came from. Look at the search. It's pretty obvious.

Well dude I just feel you're still not over Gruden. You don't see any other school hire him. Sometimes you gotta draw a line. if that's the case, why not give Saban ownership of the state of Tennessee and get him over here? Hart came into a huge pile of dung and did the best he thought for the university. I'd love to see you tell any athletic director they're not committed to winning. If you don't buy the expensive brake pads cuz you're too broke, am I allowed to say you aren't committed to safety for your family? Not the best analogy but you get my point.

 

[Wood Man]

The jury is still out until the season starts. At this point we don't know where we stand with Butch Jones. My money is on the season going like our recruiting did; we will every game we're supposed to, and win a few games we're not supposed to win.

You know it used to be that every year we'd win one or two that it looked like we had no chance in. Those were fun wins; let's hope it starts back up in '13.

 

[JayVols]

Well dude I just feel you're still not over Gruden. You don't see any other school hire him. Sometimes you gotta draw a line. if that's the case, why not give Saban ownership of the state of Tennessee and get him over here? Hart came into a huge pile of dung and did the best he thought for the university. I'd love to see you tell any athletic director they're not committed to winning. If you don't buy the expensive brake pads cuz you're too broke, am I allowed to say you aren't committed to safety for your family? Not the best analogy but you get my point.

I completely agree that there's lines, but you're mistaken on the Gruden bitterness. I would have loved to have seen it. Didn't happen. I'm not ripping Jones at all.

Give me the opportunity to talk to Hart, and you would see it. What's he gonna do? Blow that white dry-mouth old man spittle that cakes up in the corners of his mouth at me?

As far as the Saban analogy, exaggerate much? Hart is out for himself. Do some digging and you'll see. There's been several good places to start looking already given.

And I do only buy Callahan Premium Brake Pads.

 

[JayVols]

You know it used to be that every year we'd win one or two that it looked like we had no chance in. Those were fun wins; let's hope it starts back up in '13.

I'll drink to that, my brother.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Got a weekly wrapup email from Rep. Ryan Haynes yesterday. This may be of some interest:

Education Reform Group Calls for More Difficult College Standards

The State Collaborative on Reforming Education is calling for tougher college standards for Tennessee students, an announcement that was made Tuesday during SCORE's third annual review of the state's progress in education.

Among the recommendations offered, SCORE Chairman Bill Frist emphasized that state lawmakers must not go back on progress made over the last few years relating to education reform. In particular, Frist cited that legislators be firm making sure reforms passed over the last two years are not diluted during the 2013-2014 legislation session.

Kevin Huffman, Tennessee Commissioner of Education, detailed proposals by Governor Haslam to continue improving education in Tennessee, stating that while the Administration feels good about the progress and policies in place to help education move forward, there is still a “very, very long way to go”.

Additional details on the SCORE report can be found at State Collaborative on Reforming Education.

 

[tennfever]

Can't help but wonder how many of these so called fans basically only negavols ever even make it to Neyland on Saturdays

 

[therealitytheory]

What a hilarious thread this is, the short bus of Vol Nation.

Fire the AD. Fire the Chancellor. Reign in the boosters. Gruden. More power to the boosters. Gruden Gruden. Academics ruint (sic) our football. More Gruden.

The villians aren't Hart, Cheek, or Haslam. The real villain is David Cutcliff and his desire to be a head coach. His departures begat Randy Sanders and Dave Clawson as OCs, and their results are well documented. With Cut gone, Phil floundered and that put the onus on the other villain, Mike Hamilton, to make head coaching decisions that have laid waste to the program.

A too-brief synopsis for sure, but suitable for the short attention-spanners who linger here.

 

[JayVols]

What a hilarious thread this is, the short bus of Vol Nation.

Fire the AD. Fire the Chancellor. Reign in the boosters. Gruden. More power to the boosters. Gruden Gruden. Academics ruint (sic) our football. More Gruden.

The villians aren't Hart, Cheek, or Haslam. The real villain is David Cutcliff and his desire to be a head coach. His departures begat Randy Sanders and Dave Clawson as OCs, and their results are well documented. With Cut gone, Phil floundered and that put the onus on the other villain, Mike Hamilton, to make head coaching decisions that have laid waste to the program.

A too-brief synopsis for sure, but suitable for the short attention-spanners who linger here.

Are you trying to overcompensate for some of your own shortcomings with the verbose intellectual superiority schtick, or are you just simply an ass incapable of a discussion sans childish insults? Either explanation would make sense.

 

[therealitytheory]

Are you trying to overcompensate for some of your own shortcomings with the verbose intellectual superiority schtick, or are you just simply an ass incapable of a discussion sans childish insults? Either explanation would make sense.

The, uh, first thing. The verbose intellectual superiority schtick thingy.

Look, it's not that hard. Hamilton and a rotating gang of university presidents own the Phil-to-Lane-to-Dools crapfest. And they're all gone.

Hart and Cheek, relatively new to the scene, own the CBJ hire and whatever comes from it. The OP admits in his opening rant that he doesn't know what Butch will accomplish as head coach. Why not let it play out at least a year or two before we decide that everybody has to go?
There's a chance that recent events don't spell the death of UT football.

 

[JayVols]

The, uh, first thing. The verbose intellectual superiority schtick thingy.

Look, it's not that hard. Hamilton and a rotating gang of university presidents own the Phil-to-Lane-to-Dools crapfest. And they're all gone.

Hart and Cheek, relatively new to the scene, own the CBJ hire and whatever comes from it. The OP admits in his opening rant that he doesn't know what Butch will accomplish as head coach. Why not let it play out at least a year or two before we decide that everybody has to go?
There's a chance that recent events don't spell the death of UT football.

That's a decent post, and I agree with much of it. Hamilton was an unmitigated disaster. No need to say more.

While the events of the Hamilton regime are well documented, the Hart and Cheek saga will similarly be revealed. I'm not butchering (no pun intended) Jones. The only thing he is guilty of so far is taking advantage of a lucrative opportunity to coach a historically relevant team in the nation's premiere conference. There's nothing bad or wrong about that at all. Do I think he is better than our last coach? Absolutely. 99.9% of the coaches out there would be. Is he a grand-slam hire? No. But, that's not necessarily his fault. Does that mean he is doomed to failure? Absolutely not. So, what does it mean, then? I think there are aspects about Jones that point towards success and some that don't. Bottom line: We'll see what shakes out with him in time. It's too soon to make a judgement.

Like I said, my statements aren't about Jones. Do I think certain leaders aren't as committed, invested, passionate, et al about UT football as others? Without a doubt in my mind. Does my hatred for all things bama influence my views? Probably. I do think we could have prosecuted a better search. We are where we are, and that is a struggling program faced with lots of unknowns. I think there were better coaches we could have hired (not just Gruden for those that want to throw that around). We could have hired much worse. I question the effort and desire to make the absolute best hire possible. That's not intended as a knock on Jones at all. I hope he wins them all, so all of this will be irrelevant.

 

[tm3]

Just curious, JV, who you think the possible better hires were?

 

[JayVols]

Just curious, JV, who you think the possible better hires were?

Let me qualify something first, please. We had $3 million/year to offer a coach after it was decided that booster money was not wanted. That limited the pool. The coaches I think we could have gotten would have required more than that more than likely. Give me some time and I will get back to you. I'm working a coaching camp right now. I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you.

 

[JayVols]

Just curious, JV, who you think the possible better hires were?

Sorry for the delay, but when work calls, you answer. Here goes:

More (Some Much Much More) than $3 Million Category:

1. Gruden: No surprise for those that know of me here. Don't worry. I've accepted the fact we didn't hire him, but if it makes anyone feel better to take pot shots, go for it. I'm a big boy. It would have broken the bank and power would have been given up, but despite what anyone says, I know for a fact that he was quite interested, if in his own words, "It is the right situation."

2. Greg Roman- the 49ers offense would be a great fit in the SEC. He made Alex Smith a viable option. He has interviewed for college jobs.

3. Gary Patterson: would have taken some money, but he could be lured from TCU

4. Chris Peterson: see #3 but plug in Boise St.

5. Charlie Strong: We didn't offer enough money.

Questionable Character(to the point of undesirable) But Still More Proven Category:

6. Jim Tressel: I hate sweater vests, but the guy can coach. Sanctions that come with him are unacceptable, but he could be had.

7. Bobby Petrino: The guy is scum, but he can coach his ass off.

Not Known at the Time Category:

8. Brett Bielema: Had no clue he wanted out of Wisconsin, but apparently he did. Look at his O-lines while at Wisconsin. You gotta love a bunch of big nasty hog mollies that love to run block. The best hire in the SEC this offseason, imo. Love his hard-nosed old-school style.

9. Tommy Tuberville- Most will disagree here, but he has proven more than Jones at this point. He may be in decline from his 'prime', but has established he can win in the SEC. He had a 7-3 record vs the bammers at Auburn. You have to like that. Full Disclosure : I have a personal friend that has coached with Tuberville for 10+ years as his D-Line coach. He has more recently been in an administrative position due to a very bad injury suffered on the sideline. As a result of this, I know Tubs. Despite his leaving Texas Tech and the bridges he burned, he can coach, recruit (his backfield one year had Cadillac Williams, Ronnie Brown, and Brandon Jacobs), and he is a helluva good guy.


The Kick in the Jimmy from the Last Search Category:

1. Kevin Sumlin- He wanted the UT job badly the last time we were looking for a coach. We hired a guy named Derek Dooley.....DOH! I don't need to say more.

There's some guys. Please note that I am not endorsing any of these guys. I'm just answering who I think are better coaches and/or have proven more than Jones here and now that we had a shot at hiring, imo. With the exceptions of Roman and Gruden, I only listed current head coaches. I also didn't mention any mid-major up and comers that I think are great coaches. Please, don't take this as me attacking Butch Jones. I had no intentions of doing so. My views on the matter were and are this: After the turmoil of the last several years, I simply felt that UT needed a rock solid proven coach instead of another hire and hope guy. Our fans (not that I think fans win/lose games) needed someone that everyone could rally around. Arguments can be made that Jones is proven. I don't agree, but they can be made nonetheless. We don't know how he will do. He very well may kill it here, or he may tank. Only time will answer that. I just wish we didn't have to play that argumentative guessing game about our coach.....again. I am rooting for Coach Jones. He's who we have. I hope and pray he is insanely successful because if he isn't, it may take UT football many many years to return to the level of competing for championships. Have a good one, bro.

 

[ptgrbn]

until a change is made at the very top. The UT admin above Hart IS NOT committed to winning.

We have to hope that we can succeed with what we have. If not, another coaching change in 3 years and another coaching search that ends up being sub-par

Butch Jones may turn out to be great, but who knows. This league is not friendly to coaches without SEC experience.

If UT is going to return to prominence, we have to have the winning attitude start at the top. Its not there with Cheek

Fire Cheek and get someone in that thinks more of the UT AD than an ATM

Yeah just like the SEC wasn't kind to Saban, Meyer, Miles, Richt, and Franklin.