Utah State WR

#76
#76
durrrr said:
There is nothing to gloat about. USU is a better team than us assuming CK16 is a full go.
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"CK16"... what UT fan would use that?

USU is not a better team in terms of talent... and it ain't close. UT has been in a valley of late. USU against the same schedule would have been far worse. In fact with the kind of beating a roster takes against the schedules UT has played, USU would have been worse than UK.

This isn't so much a diss of USU as for you. They're a mid-major who has risen to respectability among mid-majors. "durrrr" is a good name for you. Maybe add some "r's" though.

We have the home field advantage, which is huge, but anybody expecting an automatic-W will be in for a surprise.
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There is no such thing as an automatic win. Football is a funny game where Georgia Southern beats UF under just the right conditions. But if things are "normal"... your team...errrr USU... loses by 17+. Home field advantage isn't that huge of an advantage... and means little to the outcome of this game.

Fact: USU will have the best player on the field at all times. OLB Kyler Fackrell is a freak, even by SEC measure. CK16 is a Heisman contender and this is his chance to make a statement.
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You are way... way... too obvious. Many if not most good mid-majors have a couple of studs. WKU did last year. But USU isn't Bama... or LSU... or UGA... or even Vandy in terms of talent across the board.

I'll put it this way. Let UK swap schedules with USU and they compete for the MWC title... USU finishes last in the SEC.

They are well coached and their defense is formidable.
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Against?

What % of our team will be making their debut in this game, 40?
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IIRC, USU replaces more starters than UT. Both teams will run new guys out there. The difference is that UT's new guys will be bigger, stronger, faster, and quicker than USU's new guys.

Including all the true freshman, who, while extremely talented, are facing guys 3-4 years older than them who have developed in the same system their entire time. This team is comparable to the 2013 UCF and NIU teams, neither of which we were better than.
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All I can say at this point... is get your head out of there.

This is a formidable opponent and by no means an auto-W, no matter how you spin it. I expect to win, but losing this game is no disappointment and certainly no shame.
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Losing this game would be a HUGE shame and disappointment... no matter how you spin it. It would be somewhat equivalent to Dooley's loss to UK... but worse. It would almost immediately put Jones on a hot seat having to do something pretty extraordinary to survive. Worse still, it would kill all the recruiting momentum he has by giving opposing coaches a prime example of him failing to be able to use superior talent to win.
 
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#77
#77
UGADawg4Life said:
durrrr said:
I see this game being similar to our Boise State opener in '11. Our guys had the attitude of SEC superiority and BSU was very talented and had something they wanted to prove. I think anyone who thinks this will be an easy blowout is going to be disappointed. They'll come to play.
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I don't think it will be anything like that game. One, they aren't Boise. Two, UT isn't UGA. There is no real reason that UT's players should suffer at all from over-confidence. In fact, there is MORE reason that USU's players would.

If this comes down to talent then UT wins by 17+.

The fact that Richt isn't a great manager or leader of his team has no real bearing on the USU v UT game this fall.
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#78
#78
This is a worthy opponent. Tennessee may lose. It wont be the end of the world. Should they win it will be a solid victory. Those are facts.

It is not a fact that Tennessee will be a heavy favorite in this game.
 
#79
#79
Oskie Volum said:
See that's the problem I have with people putting it all on Sal's D. We score fast and the D that is depleted doesn't have time to rest. Idc how talented u r that's a concern...and Saban agrees with that. Why I don't bash or blame the '12 Vol D like so many on here do. Those boys played their hearts out from start to finish that year, but lack of depth and not being able to rest killed them. Perfect example was UF '12 after they stopped the fake punt, and we went 3 and out. That right there was one the first major negative pivotal moments of the season.

Problem with Bray as he was a "swagger" seeker, and had no game management ability....mainlyy no want for it. A good balance between the 2 would be ideal.
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UT's O didn't keep UT's D on the field early in games though. Sal's D was horrible... and there is no way to rationalize that away. It was the worst scoring D by far in the history of UT. It is a TD worse than 2nd place.
 
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#80
#80
s1216 said:
This is a worthy opponent. Tennessee may lose. It wont be the end of the world. Should they win it will be a solid victory. Those are facts.

It is not a fact that Tennessee will be a heavy favorite in this game.
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It does not matter to anyone not betting what bookies or pundits say. UT should dominate this team.

Of course it won't be the end of the world... it could be a pretty long nail in the coffin of Jones though.
 
#84
#84
sjt18 said:
It does not matter to anyone not betting what bookies or pundits say. UT should dominate this team.

Of course it won't be the end of the world... it could be a pretty long nail in the coffin of Jones though.
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UT should win, we agree.

I implore you to stop setting up arbitrary spreads that allow you to seethe when your expectations aren't met.

Predicting a win or a loss is relatively easy. Conversely, predicting the scale of the loss (or win) becomes more difficult in part due to any number of variables on that single day.

This is as interesting to me as people who want to see "competitive losses." No matter how close a loss, if UT loses to Bama, we never get to claim a win. It doesn't matter if we lose by 1 or 100. I believe the fascination with score differentials is completely driven by fan ego, and tends to weigh on the the same fan's ability to be objective.

Granted, there is no reason for a fan to be objective and rational and I get that.

A win is a win, a loss is a loss. I attempt to keep that as my mantra anyway.
 
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#85
#85
sjt18 said:
Everything is predicated on the assumption that Jones and company have at least a moderate amount of competence. One of the marks of the "right" coach for UT will be that they generally smack undermanned teams around.... They DON'T let inferior teams stick around.



Keeton's greatness has always been a function of the competition he played. If Jones and his DC can't gameplan to contain one player when they have superior athletes on D to their athletes on O... then UT's problems are much worse than USU.
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And why I'm taking the season game by game. I honestly do not know if CBJ is that good...yet. Yrs from now with SEC experience...maybe. Not yet imo nor do I know if he's going to be given enough time to "learn on the job".

Keeton can cause headaches if he goes balls to the wall. He's a Texan too, so it's not like the kid doesn't have talent above his star ranking. Only thing I can hope for is that CBJs experience of scheming for O-heavy teams in the lower ranks will come to be beneficial. Who knows all is assumption, and thoughts thrown at the wall...why I'm taking it game by game before I get confident. Honestly unless something drastically changes this year I'm game by game for many yrs to come.
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#86
#86
sjt18 said:
UT's O didn't keep UT's D on the field early in games though. Sal's D was horrible... and there is no way to rationalize that away. It was the worst scoring D by far in the history of UT. It is a TD worse than 2nd place.
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His D was bad on paper (so was CBJs last yr) but doesn't mean the players didn't play their hearts out. The D did better early than most like to remember. The '12 season wasn't about us being out of games early like '11. We took many teams pretty deep. That stopped fake punt I mentioned was in the 5-6th min range of the 3rd, and we were up 20-13. Heck we went into half up 14-10. So the D wasn't an issue there early. Bray takes advantage of that momentum after the fake punt, and puts pts on the board to widen the gap and give the D rest..arghhh pisses me off thinking about it. And no not because I'm a "Derek Dooley," but because I'm a UT fan that didn't internally celebrate in loses cause Dooley would get fired...like so many around here.
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#88
#88
daj2576 said:
UT should win, we agree.

I implore you to stop setting up arbitrary spreads that allow you to seethe when your expectations aren't met.
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I'm not going to seethe. I'm stating what I believe to be true. If it is a 10 pt game that launches a 6-8 win season... I promise I won't harp on the game being closer than the talent should have made it.

This is as interesting to me as people who want to see "competitive losses." No matter how close a loss, if UT loses to Bama, we never get to claim a win. It doesn't matter if we lose by 1 or 100. I believe the fascination with score differentials is completely driven by fan ego, and tends to weigh on the the same fan's ability to be objective.
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Margins mean a great deal about the competitiveness of a game and two teams. I must be confused about what you are trying to say because you are MUCH smarter than to think they don't. If you chose to, you could come up with a "close" game predictor like your 70% predictor based on recruiting classes.

The implications of what you seem to be saying is that if UT loses to Bama by 5 and Chatt loses to them by 55... we really can't use that as a demonstration of UT being better than Chatt.

Granted, there is no reason for a fan to be objective and rational and I get that.
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There is nothing subjective or irrational about saying that an LSU team that pushes Bama to the wire and loses by 2 is very likely better than a UK team that loses to them by 40.

A win is a win, a loss is a loss. I attempt to keep that as my mantra anyway.
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That is true. But a close loss is almost always an indication that you are closer to winning than a blowout.

A kid that scores a 59% on an exam is closer to being a passing student than one that scores 19%. It IS a very fair and objective proof that one student is better and further along than the other.
 
#90
#90
RiseToTheTop said:
Just wanted to give you guys an update on of our opponents and their recent happenings.

USU WR Bruce "JoJo" Natson was arrested today for a Theft Charge. Its a class A misdemeanor i believe meaning a theft for over $500 but less than $1500. So a Class B petty theft in Utah is for less than $500 apparently if you want to be a little more detailed about the laws there. So apparently his charge is a little more serious. Not sure if this will mean anything for the first game although there's probably a decent chance it will. He is their leading returning WR with 59 Catches. He is a tiny slot guy and most of his catches took place near the LOS. He is also their Punt Returner. May not mean anything but then again it might just giving you guys a heads up. Natson is also a former HS teammate and good friend of former Vol Daniel Gray
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Can you provide a link to the article. I'd like to read it.:hi:
 
#91
#91
durrrr said:
There is nothing to gloat about. USU is a better team than us assuming CK16 is a full go. We have the home field advantage, which is huge, but anybody expecting an automatic-W will be in for a surprise. Fact: USU will have the best player on the field at all times. OLB Kyler Fackrell is a freak, even by SEC measure. CK16 is a Heisman contender and this is his chance to make a statement. They are well coached and their defense is formidable. What % of our team will be making their debut in this game, 40? Including all the true freshman, who, while extremely talented, are facing guys 3-4 years older than them who have developed in the same system their entire time. This team is comparable to the 2013 UCF and NIU teams, neither of which we were better than. This is a formidable opponent and by no means an auto-W, no matter how you spin it. I expect to win, but losing this game is no disappointment and certainly no shame.

Edit: some good links to Chuckie Keeton's game film:
Vs. Utah:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDNBFvLCll8
Vs. Toledo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLr5wx6plSM
Vs. Air Force:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS1ghemdKe8
Vs. La Tech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbw3WsTvcr4
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That's a good one.

wds5.gif
 
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#92
#92
Oskie Volum said:
His D was bad on paper (so was CBJs last yr) but doesn't mean the players didn't play their hearts out.
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His D was bad in every way. Jancek also has yet to inspire confidence. I don't think either was close to as good as Wilcox was at UT. Maybe Jancek can turn it around this year.

Contrary to most here who seem fully willing to throw the players under the bus... I do not believe the last two years were primarily a function of a lack of talent, heart, or belief in the American way. I do think the loss of Saulsberry and Couch last fall left Jancek with no DT's that play his style. However neither DC in the last two years showed creativity or ability to scheme around talent weaknesses... and there will ALWAYS be talent weaknesses. EVERY team has them.

The D did better early than most like to remember. The '12 season wasn't about us being out of games early like '11. We took many teams pretty deep. That stopped fake punt I mentioned was in the 5-6th min range of the 3rd, and we were up 20-13. Heck we went into half up 14-10. So the D wasn't an issue there early. Bray takes advantage of that momentum after the fake punt, and puts pts on the board to widen the gap and give the D rest..arghhh pisses me off thinking about it. And no not because I'm a "Derek Dooley," but because I'm a UT fan that didn't internally celebrate in loses cause Dooley would get fired...like so many around here.
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Dooley wasn't up to the task. He failed. He had to be fired and someone else brought in. UT will have to repeat this cycle until someone wins if they ever hope to win. If you give a guy who is losing more than 3 years or 4 max then you won't get the recruits to ever pull out of the hole.

Dooley was not the devil or an UGA spy sent to destroy UT football. He was just a mortal who was not up to the herculean task he faced.
 
#93
#93
The Vols need to come ready to play and not take this game lightly or this will be a long game. That being said our talent(yes, we do have talent, young talent, thanks to Butch and not Dooley) will win out in the end. UT will pull away in the 4th quarter and win by 14.
 
#95
#95
smokeyhuntsgators said:
The Vols need to come ready to play and not take this game lightly or this will be a long game. That being said our talent(yes, we do have talent, young talent, thanks to Butch and not Dooley) will win out in the end. UT will pull away in the 4th quarter and win by 14.
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You best hope that Crowder, Kerbyson, AJ, Maggitt, Randolph, Saulsberry, Pig, Young, Croom,.... are talented. If they aren't then USU is the least of our concerns.
 
#96
#96
sjt18 said:
His D was bad in every way. Jancek also has yet to inspire confidence. I don't think either was close to as good as Wilcox was at UT. Maybe Jancek can turn it around this year.

Contrary to most here who seem fully willing to throw the players under the bus... I do not believe the last two years were primarily a function of a lack of talent, heart, or belief in the American way. I do think the loss of Saulsberry and Couch last fall left Jancek with no DT's that play his style. However neither DC in the last two years showed creativity or ability to scheme around talent weaknesses... and there will ALWAYS be talent weaknesses. EVERY team has them.


Dooley wasn't up to the task. He failed. He had to be fired and someone else brought in. UT will have to repeat this cycle until someone wins if they ever hope to win. If you give a guy who is losing more than 3 years or 4 max then you won't get the recruits to ever pull out of the hole.

Dooley was not the devil or an UGA spy sent to destroy UT football. He was just a mortal who was not up to the herculean task he faced.
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I know u don't think he was all that, but we know many on here do. Thing is that I do honestly think if the guy was given a better situation, heck even the one CBJ walked into, he would do better. He was given less than 3 yrs, and imo the Gruden Fiasco cost the Vols 1-2 games in '12..easily. I also believe he would have won 7 games last year if things weren't so negative.

At the end of the day not many would have been "up for the task," and I know u understand that. Given the ability to reach a stable spot then that's where we could have seen if he was competent or not imo.

I know so many think I'm just a Dooley lover, but I honestly do believe that we left wins on the table just so Hart can get his own guy in. To make his mark. That will be something I will never be able to swallow as acceptable.
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#97
#97
Oskie Volum said:
I know u don't think he was all that, but we know many on here do. Thing is that I do honestly think if the guy was given a better situation, heck even the one CBJ walked into, he would do better. He was given less than 3 yrs, and imo the Gruden Fiasco cost the Vols 1-2 games in '12..easily. I also believe he would have won 7 games last year if things weren't so negative.

At the end of the day not many would have been "up for the task," and I know u understand that. Given the ability to reach a stable spot then that's where we could have seen if he was competent or not imo.

I know so many think I'm just a Dooley lover, but I honestly do believe that we left wins on the table just so Hart can get his own guy in. To make his mark. That will be something I will never be able to swallow as acceptable.
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Dooley was a placeholder that never should have been. An interim coach would have been a much better option than settling for a losing mid-major unproven coach.
 
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#98
#98
VolStrom said:
Dooley was a placeholder that never should have been. An interim coach would have been a much better option than settling for a losing mid-major unproven coach.
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He was also a lawyer, well contacted son of a former SEC coach/AD, HC/AD experience at a rebuild, and had a BCS championship ring as an assistant under the top HC in the country. If u can't understand that at the time he came in all that made him more valuable than most "just Head-Coaches" then no need to discuss this further cause u and I will never see eye to eye.

Imo Hammy brought him to help him fix the issues in the AD as a whole not just the football program. CBJ, imo as both a fan and professionally, is without a doubt benefiting from that.
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#99
#99
s1216 said:
You do realize currently Tennessee is a two point underdog don't you?
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Very old news that was never verified. Except an article by SB Nation. Considering the source it was a hype article....nothing more, nothing less, nothing else.
 
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