Vaccine or not?

#28,401
#28,401
BigOrangeMojo said:
You don't realize that when an average week has 60K deaths nationwide, 32K in a week is a significant number.

Sounds like you went to Ras's class of stats and vodka butt chugging. Ha ha

Obviously, as the virus mutated, the effectiveness and efficiency of the "vax" waned. But yes, for most of 2021 it was at least somewhat effective, especially for the old and sick...
Click to expand...
The problem is that most are talking an “all or nothing” approach to this. There are clearly people who needed and survived because of the vaccine….especially early on. There were also clearly people who didn’t need the vaccine…..even early on.
As in everything everyone’s situation is fact dependent.
 
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#28,402
#28,402
Orangeslice13 said:
The problem is that most are talking an “all or nothing” approach to this. There are clearly people who needed and survived because of the vaccine….especially early on. There were also clearly people who didn’t need the vaccine…..even early on.
As in everything everyone’s situation is fact dependent.
Click to expand...
Agree, proof has never been there that those healthy people under 50 needed it....

But yes, the proof was there in 2021 that those 60+ with a co-morbidity needed it...(And this most recent discussion started when referring to someone in this group)
 
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#28,403
#28,403
The reason that this topic is still ongoing is bc of the government’s passive aggressive mandate by using private companies. This set the tone. And people don’t forget something like that.

It also showed us what the playbook is for the government in the future, in terms of forcing vaccinations.

They crapped all on science and long term safety data. They pushed an unproven shot and basically turned the recipients into lab rats. They shamed folks that refused the shot. They called us anti-science, conspiracy nuts, selfish, uneducated, uninformed, etc. They destroyed lives, businesses, and careers with the mandate.

So when I see folks on here still coming out hard against the shot (not a vaccine) I applaud them. They are actually following real science by wanting long term data before they go consuming a product. Good for the folks that didn’t panic and loose their cool. Glad there are some of those folks out there. We will need them in the future.
 
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#28,404
#28,404
BigOrangeMojo said:
You don't realize that when an average week has 60K deaths nationwide, 32K in a week is a significant number.

Sounds like you went to Ras's class of stats and vodka butt chugging. Ha ha

Obviously, as the virus mutated, the effectiveness and efficiency of the "vax" waned. But yes, for most of 2021 it was at least somewhat effective, especially for the old and sick...
Click to expand...
You cannot prove that. The numbers have been so corrupted that we will never know the truth.

And your contention that it is a big number is still fear mongering. In terms of 330 million people, doubling the rate is still insignificant.
 
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#28,405
#28,405
SpaceCoastVol said:
You cannot prove that. The numbers have been so corrupted that we will never know the truth.

And your contention that it is a big number is still fear mongering. In terms of 330 million people, doubling the rate is still insignificant.
Click to expand...

Fear mongering isn't taking an event that happened in the past and saying multiple times that it doesn't apply to the present. If someone gets scared from that, they need to grow a pair and find a safe space...


Yes, there were some people who died in Sept 2021 that would have died no matter what. We agree there. However, there were 100,000 more deaths in Sept 2021 than Sept 2019. That has already been proven unless you think they faked a bunch of deaths in 2021....
 
#28,406
#28,406
BigOrangeMojo said:
Fear mongering isn't taking an event that happened in the past and saying multiple times that it doesn't apply to the present. If someone gets scared from that, they need to grow a pair and find a safe space...


Yes, there were some people who died in Sept 2021 that would have died no matter what. We agree there. However, there were 100,000 more deaths in Sept 2021 than Sept 2019. That has already been proven unless you think they faked a bunch of deaths in 2021....
Click to expand...

How many of those were suicides, homicides, cancer related deaths, etc? It seems a lot of people want to use the problems created by an overly aggressive covid response as a way of justifying the response.
 
#28,407
#28,407
Vol8188 said:
How many of those were suicides, homicides, cancer related deaths, etc? It seems a lot of people want to use the problems created by an overly aggressive covid response as a way of justifying the response.
Click to expand...

Some small portion of that increase is drug overdoses and suicides for sure. I've long been of the opinion that social issues from lockdown (drugs, murders, suicides) will kill more than vax.

Once you get to about March 2022 and that COVID mutated to something similar to a cold, death rates largely returned to normal trends (except murders, suicides, ODs, which remain above pre-pandemic trends)
 
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#28,408
#28,408
BigOrangeMojo said:
Some small portion of that increase is drug overdoses and suicides for sure. I've long been of the opinion that social issues from lockdown (drugs, murders, suicides) will kill more than vax.

Once you get to about March 2022 and that COVID mutated to something similar to a cold, death rates largely returned to normal trends (except murders, suicides, ODs, which remain above pre-pandemic trends)
Click to expand...
Have they though??
UK health officials are quietly investigating a 10% rise in deaths across all age groups. They believe “circulatory diseases and diabetes are ... behind the increase.”

UK - Yearly Excess Death Rate Analysis

phinancetechnologies.com phinancetechnologies.com
 
#28,409
#28,409
VolinWayne said:
Have they though??
UK health officials are quietly investigating a 10% rise in deaths across all age groups. They believe “circulatory diseases and diabetes are ... behind the increase.”

UK - Yearly Excess Death Rate Analysis

phinancetechnologies.com phinancetechnologies.com
Click to expand...

2020, 2021, and 2022 US Deaths in ()

Heart Disease (698,359; 696,773; 704,786)
Cancer (603,112;606,030; 609,265)
Stroke (160,516; 163,115; 165,726)
Respiratory (152,763; 142,450; 147,549)
Diabetes- (102,308; 103,419; 101,390)

Drug ODs went from 6.5K/month to 9K after lockdowns

Murders up double digits

Suicides up high single digits
 
#28,410
#28,410
BigOrangeMojo said:
Fear mongering isn't taking an event that happened in the past and saying multiple times that it doesn't apply to the present. If someone gets scared from that, they need to grow a pair and find a safe space...


Yes, there were some people who died in Sept 2021 that would have died no matter what. We agree there. However, there were 100,000 more deaths in Sept 2021 than Sept 2019. That has already been proven unless you think they faked a bunch of deaths in 2021....
Click to expand...
Prove that it was FROM Fauci's flu. They doctored the 'regular' flu numbers to pump up the Covid numbers. And that is but one example. You cannot seriously deny that it was done to sell that ****. 'vaccine'. But even if it was, so what? A fire doesn't destroy every tree in the forest. A tornado doesn't destroy every house on the block. You cannot protect everyone from a 'natural' event like a flu. It is laughable to believe you can. It is the height of arrogance. Every once in awhile, a disease will run thru humanity and kill more people than normal. That isn't the issue here. The issue is that assholes created it in a lab, and one particular ******* funded it with American money IN ****ING CHINA, because it was ILLEGAL to do here. Why he hasn't been put on trial and hanged for crimes against humanity I will never understand.
 
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#28,411
#28,411
SpaceCoastVol said:
Prove that it was FROM Fauci's flu. They doctored the 'regular' flu numbers to pump up the Covid numbers. And that is but one example. You cannot seriously deny that it was done to sell that ****. 'vaccine'. But even if it was, so what? A fire doesn't destroy every tree in the forest. A tornado doesn't destroy every house on the block. You cannot protect everyone from a 'natural' event like a flu. It is laughable to believe you can. It is the height of arrogance. Every once in awhile, a disease will run thru humanity and kill more people than normal. That isn't the issue here. The issue is that assholes created it in a lab, and one particular ******* funded it with American money IN ****ING CHINA, because it was ILLEGAL to do here. Why he hasn't been put on trial and hanged for crimes against humanity I will never understand.
Click to expand...

3 points

1. The Fauci and China rant can be left for others to discuss. I have nothing to add there.

2. The CDC absolutely twisted numbers to push a vax. And yes, they would use statistically twisted figures (i.e. going from 99.9999999% to 99.99999995% and saying 500% more effective for those under 18).

3. Not on me to prove and audit what tens of thousands of health departments report each month. There's no flu, no tornado in September's to muddy up numbers. September is normally a low death month and there was 1 primary reason for the huge increase in 2021.
 
#28,412
#28,412
BigOrangeMojo said:
2020, 2021, and 2022 US Deaths in ()

Heart Disease (698,359; 696,773; 704,786)
Cancer (603,112;606,030; 609,265)
Stroke (160,516; 163,115; 165,726)
Respiratory (152,763; 142,450; 147,549)
Diabetes- (102,308; 103,419; 101,390)

Drug ODs went from 6.5K/month to 9K after lockdowns

Murders up double digits

Suicides up high single digits
Click to expand...
I think the concerning thing is the countries that are seeing an increase in mortality rate in younger people.
 
#28,413
#28,413
VolinWayne said:
I think the concerning thing is the countries that are seeing an increase in mortality rate in younger people.
Click to expand...

What's causing it in those other countries? Here, you can point to OD, suicides, murders as the cause. Again, all to my main thesis that results of lockdowns will kill more under 50 than Vax or COVID.

Other than colorectal cancer (which has been on the rise for over 10 years now), you haven't seen huge jumps in cancer deaths under 50.
 
#28,415
#28,415
Jxn Vol said:
The reason that this topic is still ongoing is bc of the government’s passive aggressive mandate by using private companies. This set the tone. And people don’t forget something like that.

It also showed us what the playbook is for the government in the future, in terms of forcing vaccinations.

They crapped all on science and long term safety data. They pushed an unproven shot and basically turned the recipients into lab rats. They shamed folks that refused the shot. They called us anti-science, conspiracy nuts, selfish, uneducated, uninformed, etc. They destroyed lives, businesses, and careers with the mandate.

So when I see folks on here still coming out hard against the shot (not a vaccine) I applaud them. They are actually following real science by wanting long term data before they go consuming a product. Good for the folks that didn’t panic and loose their cool. Glad there are some of those folks out there. We will need them in the future.
Click to expand...
... And the mandates are continuing. The VFC program is now REQUIRING private practitioners to stock CV19 shots by the end of March (on taxpayer dollars). This also means we have to order/keep on hand CV19 shots for those privately insured (on our own dollar). To my knowledge, there is no minimum inventory, so I will order one vial and just eat the cost.

Insanity.
 
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#28,416
#28,416
#28,417
#28,417
WoodsmanVol said:
Interesting that once largely defeated diseases are returning due to anti-vaxxers.
Measles
Chicken pox
Whooping cough
Mumps
RSV
www.businessinsider.com

8 infectious diseases that made a comeback in 2022 unexpectedly — and illnesses that could surge in 2023

Polio, cholera, monkeypox, RSV, and measles all surged in communities that hadn't dealt with major outbreaks in years — or ever before.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
Click to expand...

Most anti-vaxers are liberals and minorities. So in other words, democrats.
 
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#28,419
#28,419
WoodsmanVol said:
Interesting that once largely defeated diseases are returning due to anti-vaxxers.
Measles
Chicken pox
Whooping cough
Mumps
RSV
www.businessinsider.com

8 infectious diseases that made a comeback in 2022 unexpectedly — and illnesses that could surge in 2023

Polio, cholera, monkeypox, RSV, and measles all surged in communities that hadn't dealt with major outbreaks in years — or ever before.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
Click to expand...
It has nothing to do with illegal immigrants flowing through the southern border. I’m certain all of those folks are up to date on their shots.
 
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#28,421
#28,421
WoodsmanVol said:
Interesting that once largely defeated diseases are returning due to anti-vaxxers.
Measles
Chicken pox
Whooping cough
Mumps
RSV
www.businessinsider.com

8 infectious diseases that made a comeback in 2022 unexpectedly — and illnesses that could surge in 2023

Polio, cholera, monkeypox, RSV, and measles all surged in communities that hadn't dealt with major outbreaks in years — or ever before.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
Click to expand...

Or could it be that repeated covid shots weakens the immune system. Go ahead, keep getting your boosters.
 
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#28,422
#28,422
Jxn Vol said:
It has nothing to do with illegal immigrants flowing through the southern border. I’m certain all of those folks are up to date on their shots.
Click to expand...
First, you're cherry-picking. The article about much more than immigrants crossing the border. Much more. And many, very many TrumPutins are anti-vaxxers. Refusing to even allow their newborns to be given vaccinations that are/were standard for babies. Si little wonder these diseases are staging a comeback. But Tumpanzees aren't interested in facts, just conspiracies, so....
 
#28,425
#28,425
WoodsmanVol said:
First, you're cherry-picking. The article about much more than immigrants crossing the border. Much more. And many, very many TrumPutins are anti-vaxxers. Refusing to even allow their newborns to be given vaccinations that are/were standard for babies. Si little wonder these diseases are staging a comeback. But Tumpanzees aren't interested in facts, just conspiracies, so....
Click to expand...

Reversing the Decline in Routine Childhood Immunization Rates Is Good Health, Equity, and Economic Policy

There are also large disparities in vaccination rates by race, income, and geography. According to U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) data, from 2018 to 2020, children in the United States born in 2017 and 2018 who were uninsured, Black, Hispanic, or had family income below the federal poverty level had lower childhood vaccination coverage than those who were privately insured, white, or had family incomes at or above the federal poverty level. 3 These children are also disproportionately likely to have missed routine immunizations; according to the 2018–2020 National Immunization Survey, by 24 months of age, Black and Hispanic children born from 2017 to 2018 had statistically significant lower vaccination rates than the white population of most recommended childhood vaccines.4
Click to expand...
 
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