Vaccine or not?

#3,151
#3,151
whodeycin85 said:
U

Your missing the point...if vaxed people are getting infected at a higher rate then when covid started then is thr vax truly effective...so if 1 in 10 we infected before...then all 10 get vaxed and we are still at a 1 and 10 infection rate...did the vax work?
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I agree, I’m missing your point. And the supporting evidence for it. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
#3,152
#3,152
I've talked with two colleagues in the past 24 hours who have extended family with entire vaccinated households now sick and testing positive. That's certainly outside the expected "miss" rate of the vaccine. None are in serious condition, thankfully.

There are also several vaccinated hospital staff out currently.
 
#3,154
#3,154
kiddiedoc said:
I've talked with two colleagues in the past 24 hours who have extended family with entire vaccinated households now sick and testing positive. That's certainly outside the expected "miss" rate of the vaccine. None are in serious condition, thankfully.

There are also several vaccinated hospital staff out currently.
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So in other words, the vaccines are working.
 
#3,157
#3,157
hog88 said:
No. Vaccines are supposed to PREVENT a person from getting and transmitting a disease not just lessen it's severity.
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Would be fantastic if all vaccines did that. Would also be fantastic is all seatbelts prevented all bodily injury. But sometimes, as in horseshoes and hand grenades, close enough counts.

Would you rather be in a 70 mph head on collision with or without a seatbelt and airbags, even though the seatbelt and airbags may not prevent all injuries from the accident?
 
#3,158
#3,158
AthensVol2007 said:
From the fact that what we know today is “only” 35M infected out of 330M people and of that 35M there are vaxed people included. Now we know the number is much higher given antibody tests, undocumented cases, asymptomatic cases etc. Take the CDC’s conservative estimate that it’s 6x higher; that puts it at 210M cases out of 330M and 613k deaths. That’s a cumulative CFR of 0.3% which is heavily skewed by the 65+ demographic and more specifically the 75+ demographic. We’ve lost our collective minds over a virus with a 99.XXX% survival rate that disproportionately kills individuals who would’ve likely died within a year anyway (Neil Ferguson’s assumption not mine).
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I think this statement is more appropriate to the lockdowns. A disproportionate effect on the elderly doesn’t mean that the effect on the less aged is insignificant or that it doesn’t warrant precautions and mitigation.
 
#3,160
#3,160
evillawyer said:
Would be fantastic if all vaccines did that. Would also be fantastic is all seatbelts prevented all bodily injury. But sometimes, as in horseshoes and hand grenades, close enough counts.

Would you rather be in a 70 mph head on collision with or without a seatbelt and airbags, even though the seatbelt and airbags may not prevent all injuries from the accident?
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Asinine analogy.
 
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#3,161
#3,161
RockyTop85 said:
Also, how are you getting these numbers?

625,000 deaths in 35 million cases in the US is not 24/100,000, it’s more like 1,700/100,000. If you go by the US population it is 18/100,000.

So was the person saying that you’re 24 times less likely to die as a vaccinated person who contracted the virus or 24 times less likely to die as an American with the vaccine?

Show your math, please.
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How do y know there were only 35 million cases?

Hint: you don't.
 
#3,162
#3,162
SpaceCoastVol said:
How do y know there were only 35 million cases?

Hint: you don't.
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I didn’t know what his math was at all.

Hint: that’s why I asked him to show it.

That reminds me: @ENGRVOL i couldn’t find those charts you posted yesterday. Do you know which section of the CDC dashboard they were posted on?
 
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#3,167
#3,167
whodeycin85 said:
U

Your missing the point...if vaxed people are getting infected at a higher rate then when covid started then is thr vax truly effective...so if 1 in 10 we infected before...then all 10 get vaxed and we are still at a 1 and 10 infection rate...did the vax work?
Click to expand...

I don't think the math plays out the way you're suggesting.
 
#3,168
#3,168
evillawyer said:
Would be fantastic if all vaccines did that. Would also be fantastic is all seatbelts prevented all bodily injury. But sometimes, as in horseshoes and hand grenades, close enough counts.

Would you rather be in a 70 mph head on collision with or without a seatbelt and airbags, even though the seatbelt and airbags may not prevent all injuries from the accident?
Click to expand...
You didn't make that claim. You said vaccines are working for the family mentioned. There is no way you believe half of the crap you type.

Would you buy the reverse analogy? Vaccine was a waste in a patient that survived Covid unvaxed.
 
#3,171
#3,171
RockyTop85 said:
I think this statement is more appropriate to the lockdowns. A disproportionate effect on the elderly doesn’t mean that the effect on the less aged is insignificant or that it doesn’t warrant precautions and mitigation.
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The survival rate of the 30-39 age group (mine) pre-vaccination availability was 99.997%. WTF would I get a vaccine that’s unproven, change my lifestyle, socially distance, wear a mask etc. for an extra .002% chance of survival? I’ve done absolutely 0 form of Covid prevention since Jan 2020 (as has my entire family) and we’ve either not been infected or had it and not known it. My mother was flying to FL (DeSantis’ Covid hell) every month, a week at a time for an entire year, she fits damn near every category of high-risk and not only is she not dead, she’s not been sick in the slightest. If this is transmissible as the MSM and bureaucratic doctors would lead us to believe, then the odds of catching it while sitting on an airplane/in an airport 24x would have to be exponentially high. So it has to be one of the following scenarios for those who have refused to alter lifestyles:

A) we haven’t caught it cause it’s not overly transmissible

B) we had it and it’s so weak in a large population that we don’t even know we had it

C) there’s some form of predisposed immunity/antibodies that prevent contagion

D) we’ve all just been extremely lucky somehow
 
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#3,172
#3,172
AthensVol2007 said:
Not talking about you specifically but if anyone thought that the vaccine would prevent infection then they’re a moron. I had to explain this to my wife when she insisted that she did it to protect her family and friends. I said it doesn’t keep you Covid free, it keeps you Covid symptom limited.
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Let me say this. I am perfectly aware that there is no such thing as perfection. I think most reasonable people were able to come to that conclusion.

Here is one of the issues, however. The amount of "breakthough" cases even you would have to admit is surprising right now. Certainly not what most people would have expected.

Also, I'm sorry, but the people in charge of filtering the information out to the general public did give that impression that if you got the vaccine, then you would protect yourself from COVID. I post a video of Biden saying that and I'm sure if I look hard enough for other examples that haven't been wormholed, I could find a lot more. The gaslighting that is going on is disingenuous. The vaccine was indeed advertised as a protector against COVID... even going back to last March 2020 when the likes of Fauci and others were saying the only solution out of this is a vaccine.

Lastly, language is everything when we are having this discussion. So to call these items "vaccines" is technically incorrect. There is not a weakened strand of the coronavirus being inserted into these injections. It is a newly tried treatment that is suppose to trigger the immune system to create antibodies whenever the coronavirus infects a person.
 
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#3,173
#3,173
Rasputin_Vol said:
Let me say this. I am perfectly aware that there is no such thing as perfection. I think most reasonable people were able to come come to that conclusion.

Here is one of the issues, however. The amount of "breakthough" cases even you would have to admit is surprising right now. Certainly not what most people would have expected.

Also, I'm sorry, but the people in charge of filtering the information out to the general public did give that impression that if you got the vaccine, then you would protect yourself from COVID. I post a video of Biden saying that and I'm sure if I look hard enough for other examples that haven't been wormholed, I could find a lot more. The gaslighting that is going on is disingenuous. The vaccine was indeed advertised as a protector against COVID... even going back to last March 2020 when the likes of Fauci and others were saying the only solution out of this is a vaccine.

Lastly, language is everything when we are having this discussion. So to call these items "vaccines" is technically incorrect. There is not a weakened strand of the coronavirus being inserted into these injections. It is a newly tried treatment that is suppose to trigger the immune system to create antibodies whenever the coronavirus infects a person.
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This really shouldn't surprise anyone. The flu vaccine is much the same. Nothing wrong with vaccines, they're just not always guaranteed. One should just use their own best judgment whether or not they take it. Lies told by the gov and there CDC are just making things worse.
 
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#3,174
#3,174
kiddiedoc said:
I've talked with two colleagues in the past 24 hours who have extended family with entire vaccinated households now sick and testing positive. That's certainly outside the expected "miss" rate of the vaccine. None are in serious condition, thankfully.

There are also several vaccinated hospital staff out currently.
Click to expand...

I think it's now safe to say that the mRNA vaccines do not work as well vs Delta but they do work somewhat. I think we'll see a Delta booster of sorts in the Fall...but the next question is, will it be effective vs Epsilon and so on...
 
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#3,175
#3,175
AthensVol2007 said:
The survival rate of the 30-39 age group (mine) pre-vaccination availability was 99.997%. WTF would I get a vaccine that’s unproven, change my lifestyle, socially distance, wear a mask etc. for an extra .002% chance of survival? I’ve done absolutely 0 form of Covid prevention since Jan 2020 (as has my entire family) and we’ve either not been infected or had it and not known it. My mother was flying to FL (DeSantis’ Covid hell) every month, a week at a time for an entire year, she fits damn near every category of high-risk and not only is she not dead, she’s not been sick in the slightest. If this is transmissible as the MSM and bureaucratic doctors would lead us to believe, then the odds of catching it while sitting on an airplane/in an airport 24x would have to be exponentially high. So it has to be one of the following scenarios for those who have refused to alter lifestyles:

A) we haven’t caught it cause it’s not overly transmissible

B) we had it and it’s so weak in a large population that we don’t even know we had it

C) there’s some form of predisposed immunity/antibodies that prevent contagion

D) we’ve all just been extremely lucky somehow
Click to expand...
I never told you or anybody else whether you should get it or why. I criticized two or three misleading statements that other people had made and explained why I didn’t think your comment to me was relevant to vaccine decision-making. That’s pretty much it.

There isn’t really anything in this post that I disagree with other than that it’s purely ego-centric. I saw your reasoning for that in a prior post and while I have reason to believe it’s inaccurate, I don’t know for sure. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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