Vaccine or not?

#7,202
#7,202
Vjcvette said:
COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Cases: Data from the States
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"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) currently monitors hospitalizations and deaths, from any cause, among fully vaccinated individuals with COVID-19, but not breakthrough infections, which it stopped monitoring as of May 1. "

Hmmm how would they know about transmisability if they knowingly stopped collecting data for three months?

-i was told they started collecting data again at the start of August.
 
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#7,203
#7,203
LouderVol said:
"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) currently monitors hospitalizations and deaths, from any cause, among fully vaccinated individuals with COVID-19, but not breakthrough infections, which it stopped monitoring as of May 1. "

Hmmm how would they know about transmisability if they knowingly stopped collecting data for three months?

-i was told they started collecting data again at the start of August.
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Dude - She listens to the experts.
 
#7,205
#7,205
LouderVol said:
The experts who at this point have openly admit how they are slanting the data in their favor.

And worse, no one seems to care about those admissions.
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Sadly she is just one of millions on both sides, only listens to the experts that reinforce their beliefs.
 
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#7,207
#7,207
Rasputin_Vol said:
What is fundamentally different about the two things highlighted below? Its almost like you are trying to create a distinction between the two that doesn't exist.
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Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm wondering how you can disagree with the vaccinated being just as infectious as the unvaccinated... even if it is for a week or so, allegedly?
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I’m wondering how you can wonder about this when I’ve already explained it multiple times.

You made and/or disagreed with an unconditional statement. All evidence says you are incorrect. You’re now adding conditions that significantly change the meaning from the original statement to try to say you were right all along.

The likelihood of each of those conditions transpiring is significantly diminished by vaccination, therefore the original statement (COVID-19 vaccines reduce the risk of people spreading the virus that causes COVID-19) is better supported than your position.

It’s like watching a giants fan argue that Eli Manning was as good as Peyton based on number of touchdowns on Monday Night in the rain at the Meadowlands.

It’s either incredibly obtuse or bad faith.
 
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#7,208
#7,208
hog88 said:
Since a vaccinated person can still get infected and spread the virus but more likely to be a symptomatic possibility not knowing they are infected, aren’t the vaxxed more likely to be the worst spreaders?
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Does this increase a vaccinated person’s chances of spreading the virus? Possibly, maybe probably.

It would be jumping to unsupported conclusions to say that it makes them more likely to be the worst spreaders, IMO, but happy to look at anything that says that empirically.
 
#7,210
#7,210
RockyTop85 said:
I’m wondering how you can wonder about this when I’ve already explained it multiple times.

You made and/or disagreed with an unconditional statement. All evidence says you are incorrect. You’re now adding conditions that significantly change the meaning from the original statement to try to say you were right all along.

The likelihood of each of those conditions transpiring is significantly diminished by vaccination, therefore the original statement (COVID-19 vaccines reduce the risk of people spreading the virus that causes COVID-19) is better supported than your position.

It’s like watching a giants fan argue that Eli Manning was as good as Peyton based on number of touchdowns on Monday Night in the rain at the Meadowlands.

It’s either incredibly obtuse or bad faith.
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"Boom" way to go @RockyTop85
 
#7,211
#7,211
LouderVol said:
I didnt see the data behind it. AFAIK that is an unsubstantiated claim by people already using qualifiers in their article.
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It doesn’t sound like we’re talking about the same article, tbh. The people writing the article I’m referring to had nothing to do with the studies. It was just a review of several studies.

Based on how the article was written, it appeared to have been taken as well-established by the scientists in the Wisconsin study from August. Their study should explain whether that was an assumption and, if so, why they made it. Those tend to be based on other studies. If it was an assumption and was established pre-delta, then it may no longer be valid, but since they have more education and experience in this field than I do and were specifically studying Delta I’m good with discussing it as if their assumption was correct until given a more concrete reason not to.
 
#7,213
#7,213
RockyTop85 said:
I’m wondering how you can wonder about this when I’ve already explained it multiple times.

You made and/or disagreed with an unconditional statement. All evidence says you are incorrect. You’re now adding conditions that significantly change the meaning from the original statement to try to say you were right all along.

The likelihood of each of those conditions transpiring is significantly diminished by vaccination, therefore the original statement (COVID-19 vaccines reduce the risk of people spreading the virus that causes COVID-19) is better supported than your position.

It’s like watching a giants fan argue that Eli Manning was as good as Peyton based on number of touchdowns on Monday Night in the rain at the Meadowlands.

It’s either incredibly obtuse or bad faith.
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I admit that the Eli thing amused me.
 
#7,214
#7,214
Vjcvette said:
Looks like @Rasputin_Vol just got "Schooled"
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No exactly. Ras is a very smart guy who just has a different perspective and is viewing the problem from a different point of view.

for example if this problem was a giant beach ball and we’re standing on different sides, then you see it as blue. I might see it as red and Ras sees green. That doesn’t make anyone wrong or right. We can all agree it’s a beach ball. What we can do better is look for common ground on solutions as opposed to what we are currently doing.
 
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#7,215
#7,215
Orangeslice13 said:
No exactly. Ras is a very smart guy who just has a different perspective and is viewing the problem from a different point of view.

for example if this problem was a giant beach ball and we’re standing on different sides, then you see it as blue. I might see it as red and Ras sees green. That doesn’t make anyone wrong or right. We can all agree it’s a beach ball. What we can do better is look for common ground on solutions as opposed to what we are currently doing.
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Hey I have had people pounding on me because of my position ever since I posted in this thread, so it goes both ways
 
#7,216
#7,216
Vjcvette said:
Hey I have had people pounding on me because of my position ever since I posted in this thread, so it goes both ways
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You would definitely be part of the “we” in my post.

Edit:
If you were around here more you’d know that @Rasputin_Vol and I agree on somethings and very much not on others. @RockyTop85 and I agree on less but some on other things. I’ve had heated conversations with both but would gladly hang out with either. My point was that we could all do better at seeing the other person’s perspective.
 
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#7,218
#7,218
Orangeslice13 said:
No exactly. Ras is a very smart guy who just has a different perspective and is viewing the problem from a different point of view.

for example if this problem was a giant beach ball and we’re standing on different sides, then you see it as blue. I might see it as red and Ras sees green. That doesn’t make anyone wrong or right. We can all agree it’s a beach ball. What we can do better is look for common ground on solutions as opposed to what we are currently doing.
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I'm all for common ground. But we need to arrive there with reason, good info and proper discernment. The main issue is that right now, the "good info" is lacking. I don't trust your data or your sources, and you don't trust my data or my sources. So that hampers any reasonable dialogue. I don't blame that on us peons down here hashing it out on the streets. I blame that on the people that are supposed to be delivering us unbiased, truthful information. IMO, the CDC and Fauci have done irreparable harm to the medical profession with all of the goalpost moving and distortions (guidance on masks has shifted four times in a year and a half). If we are not given information that both sides can agree is pure, than we stand where we are right now... at each others throats.

Reason right now is lacking because we are being bombarded with all of these Tik-Tok/Youtube videos of either extreme cases or outright fabrications (raise my hand for engaging in some of that). Both sides are aiming to make emotional appeals. No room for reason and logic.
 
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#7,220
#7,220
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm all for common ground. But we need to arrive there with reason, good info and proper discernment. The main issue is that right now, the "good info" is lacking. I don't trust your data or your sources, and you don't trust my data or my sources. So that hampers any reasonable dialogue. I don't blame that on us peons down here hashing it out on the streets. I blame that on the people that are supposed to be delivering us unbiased, truthful information. IMO, the CDC and Fauci have done irreparable harm to the medical profession with all of the goalpost moving and distortions (guidance on masks has shifted four times in a year and a half). If we are not given information that both sides can agree is pure, than we stand where we are right now... at each others throats.

Reason right now is lacking because we are being bombarded with all of these Tik-Tok/Youtube videos of either extreme cases or outright fabrications (raise my hand for engaging in some of that). Both sides are aiming to make emotional appeals. No room for reason and logic.
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The CDC and Dr Facksy have done so much damage to their credibility that it’s hard to believe anything that they say.
Sifting through all the crap to get to peer reviewed data is a pain in the ass. And so much misinformation from both sides of the debate is very disheartening
 
#7,221
#7,221
Sorry folks, I can't debate on here anymore, if I out debate someone on here I get a warning....
Anyway its been fun
 
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