Vaccine or not?

[luthervol]

Not true. Just look at Israel, the most vaxxed country in the world.

Please do look at Israel.....................lots can be learned.
Coronavirus (COVID-19)
Israel: the latest coronavirus counts, charts and maps


The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket.
"We have a very large fraction of our population who are paying the price for a small fraction of the population who did not go to get the vaccine," said Eran Segal of the Weizmann Institute of Science, who advises the Israeli government on COVID-19.

Unvaccinated people helped fuel the rapid spread of the virus while the country remained open for business in recent months with few serious restrictions.

 

[Carp]

I dont think less then 10% infection rate world wide and less then 1% death rate is devastating.... would losing 1% of your client base in a a buisness be devastating... now personal losses yes devastating, but in the big picture of society..1% is not

Uh no. A 1% death rate would be incredibly devastating. I don't think you realize just how many people that is. For reference, if 100 million got infected per year (which is plausible, considering how contagious it is without masks/quarantines/etc) that would be 1 million deaths per year (or roughly 10 times as deadly as the flu). And that's simply as a population whole. The death rate among immune-compromised, elderly, and unhealthy people would be staggering (upwards of 2-3% in all likelihood).
'
Luckily, it seems the death rate is significantly lower than 1%. From what I recall several months ago, it appeared as if it was around .3%-.5% pre-vaccine and pre-delta variant. Now that's still very high, and we saw over 500k deaths through the first 12 months.. Luckily, since vaccinations started, the death rate has dropped significantly. We've seen a drop of 50k deaths from March 1 this year through as through the same point last year (March 1, 2020 being the day of the 1st recorded death). That is very significant since the first month or two of the pandemic, the spread wasn't nearly as high as it is now. And since mass vaccinations started in April, we've only seen 106k deaths, which is the lowest 4 month total since the pandemic began.

We are getting close to making COVID very manageable. The vaccine has FDA approval. The current death rates and hospitalization rates in TN among the vaccinated and un-vaccinated speak for themselves. I encourage you to get the shot.

 

[SlingBlayde]

Please do look at Israel.....................lots can be learned.
Coronavirus (COVID-19)
Israel: the latest coronavirus counts, charts and maps


The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket.
"We have a very large fraction of our population who are paying the price for a small fraction of the population who did not go to get the vaccine," said Eran Segal of the Weizmann Institute of Science, who advises the Israeli government on COVID-19.

Unvaccinated people helped fuel the rapid spread of the virus while the country remained open for business in recent months with few serious restrictions.

That second paragraph is one of the stupidest statements I’ve seen. If vaccines work, it shouldn’t matter about the unvaccinated. They shouldn’t even be in the conversation relative to the vaxxed.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

You can’t test it against everything “just in case”.
When the other Covids reached heard immunity then there was no longer a need. It very well could have never been a problem again. In the paperwork pulling the vaccine in 17 they say the future need was “very unlikely”. So even the scientists didn’t see the likelihood of another Covid outbreak. Which is another reason I believe Covid 19 is a man made virus. I still currently believe the accidental release theory.

That's so lame it's laughable If this is a game changing kind of vaccine, then they should have been all out with testing. What, did they think coronaviruses had somehow magically disappeared? If that is what the 'scientists' saw, then they suck some serious ass. Come on man there is no way you can believe that. Or maybe it really IS all about the money. They shelve a revolutionary kind of vaccine until such time as they can panic everyone into believing it is the golden challis and forking over great sums of money and freedom in order to obtain it.

And I have no doubt that it is man made, and it all goes back to either Fauci and/or the CCP and in either case it was intentionally released. Accident my ass. Just look at population densities of urban areas and the ferocity of how hard some were hit initially and then tell me that it was an accident. Fly over Mexico city or any of hundreds of other South American cities and look at how closely people live to one another there and convince me that New York was a more susceptible place for this to break out naturally. bull shiiiiiiit.

 

[LouderVol]

Yup just conclusion summary as accepted by the medical community. Feel free to dig deeper as I’m done dealing with those in denial.

I posted actual numbers. Numbers that dont require any special training to understand or decipher. It's not unreasonable to expect the same in return.

It's amazing that with all the "science" out there we cant get real data presented. Instead we are told to rely on interpretations while the data is kept hidden.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Natural immunity vs the vaccine in those who have never had Covid is beyond irrelevant

1 billion percent wrong.

 

[tnmarktx]

Please do look at Israel.....................lots can be learned.
Coronavirus (COVID-19)
Israel: the latest coronavirus counts, charts and maps


The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket.
"We have a very large fraction of our population who are paying the price for a small fraction of the population who did not go to get the vaccine," said Eran Segal of the Weizmann Institute of Science, who advises the Israeli government on COVID-19.

Unvaccinated people helped fuel the rapid spread of the virus while the country remained open for business in recent months with few serious restrictions.

Including how they found that natural immunity is better than being fully vaccinated?

 

[Carp]

we were talking about contagiousness. Real world numbers imo trump any white paper "should be".

We have also added almost a billion people, 12%, and population density has gone up 13% .

World Population by Year - Worldometer

Apples to oranges goes both ways.

Again, we weren't fighting H1N1 the same way in 2009. We completely shutdown our borders at different times. Not to mention, we have verifiable evidence that COVID is indeed more contagious than H1N1.

 

[whodeycin85]

Uh no. A 1% death rate would be incredibly devastating. I don't think you realize just how many people that is. For reference, if 100 million got infected per year (which is plausible, considering how contagious it is without masks/quarantines/etc) that would be 1 million deaths per year (or roughly 10 times as deadly as the flu). And that's simply as a population whole. The death rate among immune-compromised, elderly, and unhealthy people would be staggering (upwards of 2-3% in all likelihood).
'
Luckily, it seems the death rate is significantly lower than 1%. From what I recall several months ago, it appeared as if it was around .3%-.5% pre-vaccine and pre-delta variant. Now that's still very high, and we saw over 500k deaths through the first 12 months.. Luckily, since vaccinations started, the death rate has dropped significantly. We've seen a drop of 50k deaths from March 1 this year through as through the same point last year (March 1, 2020 being the day of the 1st recorded death). That is very significant since the first month or two of the pandemic, the spread wasn't nearly as high as it is now. And since mass vaccinations started in April, we've only seen 106k deaths, which is the lowest 4 month total since the pandemic began.

We are getting close to making COVID very manageable. The vaccine has FDA approval. The current death rates and hospitalization rates in TN among the vaccinated and un-vaccinated speak for themselves. I encourage you to get the shot.

1% is not significant...and if its less then 1%...make even less impact.....between cancer and heart disease we lose over 1.2 million a year and it doesnt impact anything for society..the only reason we see any imoact from covid it the government decided to shut down the economy...which was the bigger impact...especially since then majority of those death or 60+... if 1% is significant to you...stop driving, eating red meats and anything the might cause cancer...stay at home
.there are more things that'll kill you ar a higher rate then covid.....a significant rate would be if xovid was killing at 20%+ plus clip...

 

[Carp]

Not true. Just look at Israel, the most vaxxed country in the world.

You mean the country that has seen it's death per case drop by over 50% since their last COVID spike, pre-vaccination?

Everyone knows you can still get and spread COVID while vaccinated. But your chances of having symptoms are far less (which means reduced spread) and your chances of having severe symptoms are also far less.

 

[Carp]

1% is not significant...and if its less then 1%...make even less impact.....between cancer and heart disease we lose over 1.2 million a year and it doesnt impact anything for society..the only reason we see any imoact from covid it the government decided to shut down the economy...which was the bigger impact...especially since then majority of those death or 60+... if 1% is significant to you...stop driving, eating red meats and anything the might cause cancer...stay at home
.there are more things that'll kill you ar a higher rate then covid.....a significant rate would be if xovid was killing at 20%+ plus clip...

So you're argument is to combine to other ailments?

You don't understand the history if you really believe that. The Spanish Flu was a world changer and it's infected death rate was 2.5%.

 

[SlingBlayde]

You mean the country that has seen it's death per case drop by over 50% since their last COVID spike, pre-vaccination?

Everyone knows you can still get and spread COVID while vaccinated. But your chances of having symptoms are far less (which means reduced spread) and your chances of having severe symptoms are also far less.

They said in the beginning you couldn’t catch it all if vaxxed. Now you can get it but your symptoms won’t be bad even though some stats I’ve seen show a significant death rate among those fully vaxxed. I’m willing to bet that the vax only has a short term benefit (if even that). The test of time (I.e. years) IMO is the most important test that hasn’t been done yet not to mention the myriad of animal and human tests that usually occur before something is fully approved.

 

[whodeycin85]

So you're argument is to combine to other ailments?

You don't understand the history if you really believe that. The Spanish Flu was a world changer and it's infected death rate was 2.5%.

2.5 is not less then 1.......both cancer and heart disease kill the same as covid YEARLY.....
And it doesnt impact society..stop spreading fear...

 

[LouderVol]

Again, we weren't fighting H1N1 the same way in 2009. We completely shutdown our borders at different times. Not to mention, we have verifiable evidence that COVID is indeed more contagious than H1N1.

We never came close to completely shutting our borders. Some direct flights were banned, that's about it.

Based on real world evidence the various mandates like masks, restaurant closers, etc, had no real difference in the spread of Covid. You can easily look at regions that did, and regions that didnt. The only difference has been time of occurence.

 

[Orangeslice13]

That's so lame it's laughable If this is a game changing kind of vaccine, then they should have been all out with testing. What, did they think coronaviruses had somehow magically disappeared? If that is what the 'scientists' saw, then they suck some serious ass. Come on man there is no way you can believe that. Or maybe it really IS all about the money. They shelve a revolutionary kind of vaccine until such time as they can panic everyone into believing it is the golden challis and forking over great sums of money and freedom in order to obtain it.

And I have no doubt that it is man made, and it all goes back to either Fauci and/or the CCP and in either case it was intentionally released. Accident my ass. Just look at population densities of urban areas and the ferocity of how hard some were hit initially and then tell me that it was an accident. Fly over Mexico city or any of hundreds of other South American cities and look at how closely people live to one another there and convince me that New York was a more susceptible place for this to break out naturally. bull shiiiiiiit.

Seriously….
You’re argument is they were testing a vaccine vs a Covid. Managed to get 5 approved by the FDA. Then sat on the one that ultimately was used. But you think they should have kept testing vs the 1000000 other possible Covids on the off chance that one of them jumped to humans…
That’s just silly
If you want to play conspiracy theory then I’ll let someone else have at it

 

[Carp]

They said in the beginning you couldn’t catch it all if vaxxed. Now you can get it but your symptoms won’t be bad even though some stats I’ve seen show a significant death rate among those fully vaxxed. I’m willing to bet that the vax only has a short term benefit (if even that). The test of time (I.e. years) IMO is the most important test that hasn’t been done yet not to mention the myriad of animal and human tests that usually occur before something is fully approved.

Who said that? I don't recall ever hearing/reading that from verified source. What was actually said, is that the vaccines prevent COVID19 symptoms. You know, that's why they talked about the 95% efficacy. Here's an article from Feb detailing this.

COVID-19 vaccines: What does 95% efficacy actually mean?

 

[Orangeslice13]

I posted actual numbers. Numbers that dont require any special training to understand or decipher. It's not unreasonable to expect the same in return.

It's amazing that with all the "science" out there we cant get real data presented. Instead we are told to rely on interpretations while the data is kept hidden.

And yet the Red woman’s Gastro, endocrinologist, hematologist, infectious disease, and GP all agree with studies to back it up.
We will just agree to disagree at this point

 

[Orangeslice13]

1 billion percent wrong.

You better run out and catch Covid to help you fight off Covid then.

 

[Carp]

2.5 is not less then 1.......both cancer and heart disease kill the same as covid YEARLY.....
And it doesnt impact society..stop spreading fear...

2.5% -1% isn't that far off. And it completely changed of the world at that time. At 2.5%. This isn't a US issue. The entire world is treating this the same way at only .3%-.5% death rate. If it truly was 1%, the world would be freaking out a lot more than they are now.

You can't catch cancer or heart or disease, so your point is irrelevant.

 

[Vollifer1949]

You mean the country that has seen it's death per case drop by over 50% since their last COVID spike, pre-vaccination?

Everyone knows you can still get and spread COVID while vaccinated. But your chances of having symptoms are far less (which means reduced spread) and your chances of having severe symptoms are also far less.

Please explain this to me. Not arguing but it doesn't make sense to me.
If the vaccinated have less symptoms but can still get and spread the virus, it seems to me that would suggest that vaccinated people are getting and spreading it because they don't know they have it due to less symptoms.

 

[whodeycin85]

2.5% -1% isn't that far off. And it completely changed of the world at that time. At 2.5%. This isn't a US issue. The entire world is treating this the same way at only .3%-.5% death rate. If it truly was 1%, the world would be freaking out a lot more than they are now.

You can't catch cancer or heart or disease, so your point is irrelevant.

Other countries didn't shut dowm and have opened up and suffered significantly leas impact then the US
.yes it is a US issue of fear mongering...you catch cancer and heart disease from the crap you ingest..

 

[Carp]

Please explain this to me. Not arguing but it doesn't make sense to me.
If the vaccinated have less symptoms but can still get and spread the virus, it seems to me that would suggest that vaccinated people are getting and spreading it because they don't know they have it due to less symptoms.

COVID transmits more frequently among symptomatic people than asymptomatic people. It's actually estimated that asymptomatic spread is pretty rare. So if getting the vaccine leads to fewer or no symptoms, then spread should also decrease.

I'm not insinuating that vaccinated people aren't contributing to the spread. They certainly are. But if the odds of having symptoms are greatly reduced, then the odds of spreading the virus are likewise reduced as well.

 

[Carp]

Other countries didn't shut dowm and have opened up and suffered significantly leas impact then the US
.yes it is a US issue of fear mongering...you catch cancer and heart disease from the crap you ingest..

Plenty of countries have shutdown, put in travel bans/restricitions, etc. Sweden, Norway, India, Australia, Japan, France, UK,, etc. And these are just the major countries. Some smaller countries completely banned almost all international travel.

Heart disease and cancer are largely inherited. And they also tend to be long term health problems. If millions of people randomly started getting heart disease and cancer and dying a few weeks later, you can bet it would make the news more frequently.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Ok.
New topic.
Biden's team tightens grip on state use of Covid antibody treatments

this in my opinion is absolutely Bull ****. The only reason to restrict this treatment is to force people into the Vaccine.
Reminder I’m more pro freedom of choice than I am pro vaccine.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Seriously….
You’re argument is they were testing a vaccine vs a Covid. Managed to get 5 approved by the FDA. Then sat on the one that ultimately was used. But you think they should have kept testing vs the 1000000 other possible Covids on the off chance that one of them jumped to humans…
That’s just silly
If you want to play conspiracy theory then I’ll let someone else have at it

Wow. You are all in.

Wait. Are you contending that H1N1 are MRNA vaccines????