Vaccine or not?

#15,176
#15,176
Carp said:
That doesn't disprove anything I stated. Where were the massive reports of losing taste/smell in early January/February? If you think COVID was around and had infected massive amounts of US citizens in early January, then you don't understand understand how viruses work.

Again, we'll retest this theory in April May 2022. Impossible to telll how hard Omnicron will hit us at this time, but I would wager a good bit of money that deaths will down considerably YoY at that time. Regardless, we have plenty of data that tells us the death rate among the vaccinated to unvaccinated.

How do death rates from COVID-19 differ between people who are vaccinated and those who are not?

The evidence is quite clear.
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I have to stop in the first paragraph.

Loss of taste and smell is not present in all infections. That's not a decent indicator of presence of the virus. Of the dozen or so people I personally know that have had it only a couple had taste and smell impacted. The rest just had the other symptoms, and minor at that. Press pause on yourself before you tell other people they don't know what they're talking about.
 
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#15,177
#15,177
ButchPlz said:
I have to stop in the first paragraph.

Loss of taste and smell is not present in all infections. That's not a decent indicator of presence of the virus. Of the dozen or so people I personally know that have had it only a couple had taste and smell impacted. The rest just had the other symptoms, and minor at that. Press pause on yourself before you tell other people they don't know what they're talking about.
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No but it happens frequently enough, that if we had millions of infections as the poster seems to want to insinuate, there would have been larger reports of this. Also, failed flu tests. And why weren't we seeing a large increase in the amount pneumonia cases?

We know what the symptoms are. We know how infectious it is. Yet nothing suggests it was around and had spread massively by late February, or even in March.
 
#15,178
#15,178
Carp said:
No but it happens frequently enough, that if we had millions of infections as the poster seems to want to insinuate, there would have been larger reports of this. Also, failed flu tests. And why weren't seeing a large increase in the amount pneumonia cases?
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The entire first part of your post is again based on the same assumption that the tests are showing us a real representative case of the number of people with the illness. If someone is asymptomatic, they likely wouldn't test (and loss of taste/smell is a symptom!). If they didn't know COVID was a thing, they wouldn't test- or they'd be labeled as something else, or wouldn't go to the doctor unless literally dying. Your whole premise is what's being challenged, and you're whiffing on the point trying to use exactly what's being challenged.

@AthensVol2007 gave you instances where there are likely way higher case counts than reported (so likely people that are asymptomatic or mild in cases). Think also about how in studies in Germany and Austria it was shown that as many as half of people that tested positive in a handful of university studies didn't know they had COVID. These kinds of cases wouldn't show up anywhere you're trying to cite, yet here you are trying to cite them anyway, using symptoms and things like that as an example.
 
#15,179
#15,179
lostsheep said:
Exactly what the wanna-be demagogue wants you to believe.
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The ones that tout “science” and believe in 50+ genders. The ones that went from we’re going to be in an ice age, to global warming, to being under water, to “climate change” while flying around the globe to promote their agenda?
 
#15,180
#15,180
ButchPlz said:
The entire first part of your post is again based on the same assumption that the tests are showing us a real representative case of the number of people with the illness. If someone is asymptomatic, they likely wouldn't test (and loss of taste/smell is a symptom!). If they didn't know COVID was a thing, they wouldn't test- or they'd be labeled as something else, or wouldn't go to the doctor unless literally dying. Your whole premise is what's being challenged, and you're whiffing on the point trying to use exactly what's being challenged.

@AthensVol2007 gave you instances where there are likely way higher case counts than reported (so likely people that are asymptomatic or mild in cases). Think also about how in studies in Germany and Austria it was shown that as many as half of people that tested positive in a handful of university studies didn't know they had COVID. These kinds of cases wouldn't show up anywhere you're trying to cite, yet here you are trying to cite them anyway, using symptoms and things like that as an example.
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Your assumption is that millions of people had it and were asymptomatic, and there were too few cases to report. Yet that goes against literally everything we know about the virus.
 
#15,181
#15,181
Carp said:
Your assumption is that millions of people had it and were asymptomatic, and there were too few cases to report. Yet that goes against literally everything we know about the virus.
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What do you know about the virus? Case counts? Provably faulty tests, especially at the beginning? Unknowns on its origins, or when it actually started? The other proven fact that America lagged (and is still lagging) on tests and visibility into the spread? The fact that the original study that lead to Trump's initial lockdowns was faulty and irreplicable with spread factors all over the board?

It's worth asking questions. And again, you double down on the same thing you are being challenged on. I would, actually, venture that millions of people that would most likely be exposed- travelers, people working, those vacationing on long trips abroad- did have the illness and did not display the severe symptoms that are present in the older populations. You know why? Because that is, in fact, what the studies are showing (younger people are way more frequently asymptomatic!).

Anyways, you're doubling down on the same things over and over. You've been given things to ponder on, and defaulting to "this goes against what I think I know about the virus". And has been demonstrated with loads of other posters, that leads to pointless circles and circles and circles.
 
#15,182
#15,182
From my experience and discussions with colleagues, I do not believe that CV19 was widely circulating in the US prior to the cases we discovered in early March 2020. The progression, course, and strange symptoms (taste/smell loss, extreme fatigue) seen by a good percentage of those infected should have been obvious, especially in retrospect.

The timeline of the infected lab workers and spread around Wuhan and the email communications of Fauci, CDC, and WHO line up nicely.
 
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#15,184
#15,184
kiddiedoc said:
From my experience and discussions with colleagues, I do not believe that CV19 was widely circulating in the US prior to the cases we discovered in early March 2020. The progression, course, and strange symptoms (taste/smell loss, extreme fatigue) seen by a good percentage of those infected should have been obvious, especially in retrospect.

The timeline of the infected lab workers and spread around Wuhan and the email communications of Fauci, CDC, and WHO line up nicely.
Click to expand...

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
 
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#15,185
#15,185
Carp said:
That doesn't disprove anything I stated. Where were the massive reports of losing taste/smell in early January/February? If you think COVID was around and had infected massive amounts of US citizens in early January, then you don't understand understand how viruses work.

Again, we'll retest this theory in April May 2022. Impossible to telll how hard Omnicron will hit us at this time, but I would wager a good bit of money that deaths will down considerably YoY at that time. Regardless, we have plenty of data that tells us the death rate among the vaccinated to unvaccinated.

How do death rates from COVID-19 differ between people who are vaccinated and those who are not?

The evidence is quite clear.
Click to expand...
Of course deaths will be down, Omicron is a big nothing burger. Taste and smell aren’t exhibited in everyone so that’s your proof that it wasn’t spreading rapidly in early January? I’ve lost and smell numerous times in my life from sinus infections, dry nasal cavities, overblowing my nose etc. so why would I (or anyone) think something new must be up? There were a crap ton of stories of people testing negative for pneumonia and flu in late 2019/early 2020. Most were told it was a respiratory virus going around; that’s the answer we got from our pediatrician. I won’t assume he had Covid but he was negative for flu, step and pneumonia and it drug on for 2 weeks. Knowing for a fact that it was here earlier than initially first believed, knowing how transmissible it is (even the original strain) and having proof that it had spread at a 16x factor right under our noses by late March, would suggest that it wasn’t here in December (or October) and just hung out.
 
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#15,189
#15,189
Everything is happening just like I thought it would. Cases started dropping big time. People started living their life and getting back to normal. Then what happens? Boom. Yet another “variant.” And of course using their ridiculous models, omicron is extremely more transmissible than the worst viral plague in mankind delta.

Just wait until the Bill Gates backed PCR tests hit the mass market. Cases will sky rocket. Everyone needs to prepare for the future because this is what it’s gonna be. Every holiday season we will see a new “variant” pop up. We will see the knuckle draggers like Dr Flip flop and the idiot leader of the WHO get on TV and tell everyone that they need to cancel all holiday activities for the “greater good.”
 
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#15,190
#15,190
BigOrangeTrain said:
And of course using their ridiculous models, omicron is extremely more transmissible than the worst viral plague in mankind delta.
”
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The thing is, Omicron is significantly more transmissible than previous variants. Just because you don't like the truth doesn't make it not true.

It's also much, much milder. Common cold level.

When virii reproduce, they tend to go one of two paths: significantly more deadly (which reduces the opportunity for transmission greatly, because the carrier is dead) or significantly more transmissable (it can't propogate if the carrier is highly compromised).
 
#15,191
#15,191
AshG said:
The thing is, Omicron is significantly more transmissible than previous variants. Just because you don't like the truth doesn't make it not true.

It's also much, much milder. Common cold level.

When virii reproduce, they tend to go one of two paths: significantly more deadly (which reduces the opportunity for transmission greatly, because the carrier is dead) or significantly more transmissable (it can't propogate if the carrier is highly compromised).
Click to expand...

The truth? Truth according to whom? The same ones who have been telling us 2 weeks to flatten the curve? The same ones that have told us that these college football games, with stadiums packed to the hilt, would be mega super spreading events? The same ones who have told people if you just wear a mask and get vaccinated then you can get back to normal? Only to see them reverse on that time and time again? Not only that but see pictures and videos of the same people without masks, living life as normal while essentially laughing at the ones dumb enough to follow their advice.

Variants were always going to happen. It’s how viruses survive. Especially those with an animal reservoir. But the ones who are spreading the “truth” as you say are continually using exceptions to prove the rule. They have been manipulating data from the very start and using fear tactics to scare people into thinking this thing is the deadliest virus to ever hit.

also, the more transmissible thing, what algorithms are they using to determine that? Can they be trusted?
 
#15,192
#15,192
BigOrangeTrain said:
The truth? Truth according to whom? The same ones who have been telling us 2 weeks to flatten the curve? The same ones that have told us that these college football games, with stadiums packed to the hilt, would be mega super spreading events? The same ones who have told people if you just wear a mask and get vaccinated then you can get back to normal? Only to see them reverse on that time and time again? Not only that but see pictures and videos of the same people without masks, living life as normal while essentially laughing at the ones dumb enough to follow their advice.

Variants were always going to happen. It’s how viruses survive. Especially those with an animal reservoir. But the ones who are spreading the “truth” as you say are continually using exceptions to prove the rule. They have been manipulating data from the very start and using fear tactics to scare people into thinking this thing is the deadliest virus to ever hit.

also, the more transmissible thing, what algorithms are they using to determine that? Can they be trusted?
Click to expand...

I think I've figured out the crux of your response. Have a good day. May you find peace.
 
#15,193
#15,193
Just got some very unsettling news from a family member in Maryland. She got the Pfizer vaccine. Within 1 week she was hospitalized with severe nerve damage that is irreversible in her arm, she now has Bell’s Palsy, irreversible heart and brain damage and found out she may be on a Walker the rest of her life. This was a fairly healthy woman in her mid 60’s who doesn’t smoke, drink or do any kind of drugs. Her and her husband are health nuts who exercise and practice tai chi on a daily basis.

Both had COVID last year with absolutely zero issues. But yeah the vaccine is definitely the way to go.
 
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#15,196
#15,196
BigOrangeTrain said:
Just got some very unsettling news from a family member in Maryland. She got the Pfizer vaccine. Within 1 week she was hospitalized with severe nerve damage that is irreversible in her arm, she now has Bell’s Palsy, irreversible heart and brain damage and found out she may be on a Walker the rest of her life. This was a fairly healthy woman in her mid 60’s who doesn’t smoke, drink or do any kind of drugs. Her and her husband are health nuts who exercise and practice tai chi on a daily basis.

Both had COVID last year with absolutely zero issues. But yeah the vaccine is definitely the way to go.
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Sorry to hear about your family member. Hope she recovers. Two of my employees who got the shot are now both complaining about their heart. Nothing major yet but definitely monitoring the situation.
 
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#15,197
#15,197
VolinWayne said:
Sorry to hear about your family member. Hope she recovers. Two of my employees who got the shot are now both complaining about their heart. Nothing major yet but definitely monitoring the situation.
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Hopefully nothing major happens to them. Yeah this just happened so it’s a real bummer. Their Christmas is not going to be a happy one.
 
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