Vaccine or not?

Okay so can we agree that 18k people have been reported as dying within x days of vaccination?

Sure, but that's irrelevant to the point you asserted. For christs sakes - the article even pointed out that people coincidentally die at some point after getting vaccinated. 240 million people have received a vaccine jab, some of those people are going to die - this point is irrelevant to your assertion that they died because of the jab.

I normally don't ad hom, opting to insult intelligence by small, frequent inferential back hands. In your case however, I may need to make an exception because I'm not sure you're capable of understanding by beautifully crafted slights. In terms you may be able to understand as an emt, your reading comprehension is on par with that of a small child that suffered from a nine minute bout of cerebral anoxia.
 
That’s fine. Your dishonesty was getting old. It’s pathetic really

Given your inability comprehend the written word, use rational or critical thought - I'm surprisingly OK with your assessment of me.
 
Given your inability comprehend the written word, use rational or critical thought - I'm surprisingly OK with your assessment of me.

What’s the difference between the reported Covid deaths and reported vaccine deaths?

I would argue I made a point to state those were only reported deaths and not 100% proven to be from the vaccine.

We agree the “reported Covid deaths” are also not 100% proven to be a result of Covid correct?
 
@Vol8188 Here, let me help.

Reporting even unrelated deaths
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires health care providers to report any serious adverse event (including death) that happens after a COVID-19 vaccination – whether or not the provider thinks there is any link. The CDC says, "Health care providers are required to report to VAERS the following adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination…regardless if the reporter thinks the vaccine caused the AE." AE stands for adverse event and includes death.

That means that if a vaccinated person drowns, gets in a car crash or is struck by lightning, their death must be reported to VAERS as an adverse event. Since we've vaccinated over 223 million people in the United States, many deaths will occur coincidentally after vaccination.

As of Nov. 2, people have reported to VAERS 14,506 deaths that occurred sometime after COVID-19 vaccination. Doctors at the CDC review each reported death, looking at death certificates, autopsy and medical records. Additional CDC vaccine safety monitoring systems such as the National Healthcare Safety Network, Vaccine Safety Datalink, Clinical Immununization Safety Assessment Project and FDA's vaccine safety reporting systems are then used to provide more rigorous scientific investigation of potential adverse events. The true number of deaths currently attributed to COVID-19 vaccines in detailed scientific investigation is quite small.


I've highlighted the important bits for you. Beyond helping you understand that the 14,506 deaths were not due to the vaccination, the deaths simply occurred after the people had been vaccinated - for all manners of death. I'm trying but in my mortal form, I can't understand this crucial point for you.
So in a nutshell the deaths “from” the vaccine are kind of like the deaths “from” Covid? You know how some people were positive with Covid but died of something completely unrelated? The same way you know there’s not 14k vaccine related deaths, myriad reasonable people know there’s not 800k Covid related deaths.
 
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What’s the difference between the reported Covid deaths and reported vaccine deaths?

I would argue I made a point to state those were only reported deaths and not 100% proven to be from the vaccine.

We agree the “reported Covid deaths” are also not 100% proven to be a result of Covid correct?

You're trying to back your way into saving face?

I asked you to show me evidence of your claim that the vaccine killed 20k people.

You've failed to do that after repeatedly screeching about me being dishonest.

Dishonest about what? You're the only one trotting out statements of fact without evidence or any modicum of receipts.

Did you really think you could start with the answer and back into the question? LOL
 
Sure, but that's irrelevant to the point you asserted. For christs sakes - the article even pointed out that people coincidentally die at some point after getting vaccinated. 240 million people have received a vaccine jab, some of those people are going to die - this point is irrelevant to your assertion that they died because of the jab.

I normally don't ad hom, opting to insult intelligence by small, frequent inferential back hands. In your case however, I may need to make an exception because I'm not sure you're capable of understanding by beautifully crafted slights. In terms you may be able to understand as an emt, your reading comprehension is on par with that of a small child that suffered from a nine minute bout of cerebral anoxia.

When you state the number of Covid deaths due you state them as “reported deaths of people with Covid” or just from Covid?

Yes there’s a background death rate, obviously. X number of people will die within 2 weeks of vaccination just like x number of people will die within 2 weeks of Covid diagnosis.

Do you hold both sides to this absurd standard? Or is it fair to simply state 18k reported deaths? Seems that’s far more fair than the way Covid deaths have been stated as if they’re absolutes and 100% due to Covid. I’ve granted you from the start that I can’t proclaim all 18k are due to the vaccine, only that they’ve been reported to be due to the vaccine
 
So in a nutshell the deaths “from” the vaccine are kind of like the deaths “from” Covid? You know how some people were positive with Covid but died of something completely unrelated? The same way you know there’s not 14k vaccine related deaths, myriad reasonable people know there’s not 800k Covid related deaths.

You're A) unwittingly making my point for me and B) what deaths from the vaccine?

So far no ones shown any evidence there is any correlation. Only claims.
 
Just and FYI, my six year old cousin has had 2 seizures since 1st vaccine. Same thing has happened to one of my daughters six year old playmate. Also uncle passed away from brain bleed after two doses of the vaccine. All perfectly healthy before hand. I know just anecdotal, carry on with your with your petty arguments don't look outside your bubble.
 
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When you state the number of Covid deaths due you state them as “reported deaths of people with Covid” or just from Covid?

Yes there’s a background death rate, obviously. X number of people will die within 2 weeks of vaccination just like x number of people will die within 2 weeks of Covid diagnosis.

Do you hold both sides to this absurd standard? Or is it fair to simply state 18k reported deaths? Seems that’s far more fair than the way Covid deaths have been stated as if they’re absolutes and 100% due to Covid. I’ve granted you from the start that I can’t proclaim all 18k are due to the vaccine, only that they’ve been reported to be due to the vaccine

I don't know, but that's not an argument we're having. Let's focus on your assertion that 20k people died due to the vaccine.

please cite your source.
 
You're trying to back your way into saving face?

I asked you to show me evidence of your claim that the vaccine killed 20k people.

You've failed to do that after repeatedly screeching about me being dishonest.

Dishonest about what? You're the only one trotting out statements of fact without evidence or any modicum of receipts.

Did you really think you could start with the answer and back into the question? LOL

There’s nothing I need to save face from. I’ve referred to them as “reported deaths” from the beginning. Like anything else that’s “reported” it’s open to some error. What would I need save face from?

Your own source agreed with 14k as of early November. But nearly 2 months later you don’t believe 18k is reasonable? You’re just talking out of your @$$ at this point
 
Just and FYI, my six year old cousin has had 2 seizures since 1st vaccine. Same thing has happened to one of my daughters six year old playmate. Also uncle passed away from brain bleed after two doses of the vaccine. All perfectly healthy before hand. I know just anecdotal, carry on with your with your petty arguments don't look outside your bubble.

One of my employees won $1,000 on the way home from getting the vaccine off a scratcher.

Coincidence?
 
I don't know, but that's not an argument we're having. Let's focus on your assertion that 20k people died due to the vaccine.

please cite your source.

Seems you’re intentionally changing my argument. I clearly stated that 18k or “roughly 20k” have been reported.

You personally showed 14k reported as of what, November 2nd? Do you think they stopped since then? No more were reported?
 
Seems you’re intentionally changing my argument. I clearly stated that 18k or “roughly 20k” have been reported.

You personally showed 14k reported as of what, November 2nd? Do you think they stopped since then? No more were reported?

You're changing your argument, I'm just shining a light on it.

Now... 14k what?
 
One of my employees won $1,000 on the way home from getting the vaccine off a scratcher.

Coincidence?

Are you going to call them all coincidence? If the reported incidence of death, myocarditis, seizures, etc is greater than the background rate, shouldn’t we have concern about that?

Or just call the death or serious illness of kids “coincidence”
 
@Vol8188 Here, let me help.

Reporting even unrelated deaths
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires health care providers to report any serious adverse event (including death) that happens after a COVID-19 vaccination – whether or not the provider thinks there is any link. The CDC says, "Health care providers are required to report to VAERS the following adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination…regardless if the reporter thinks the vaccine caused the AE." AE stands for adverse event and includes death.

That means that if a vaccinated person drowns, gets in a car crash or is struck by lightning, their death must be reported to VAERS as an adverse event. Since we've vaccinated over 223 million people in the United States, many deaths will occur coincidentally after vaccination.

As of Nov. 2, people have reported to VAERS 14,506 deaths that occurred sometime after COVID-19 vaccination. Doctors at the CDC review each reported death, looking at death certificates, autopsy and medical records. Additional CDC vaccine safety monitoring systems such as the National Healthcare Safety Network, Vaccine Safety Datalink, Clinical Immununization Safety Assessment Project and FDA's vaccine safety reporting systems are then used to provide more rigorous scientific investigation of potential adverse events. The true number of deaths currently attributed to COVID-19 vaccines in detailed scientific investigation is quite small.
 
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Are you going to call them all coincidence? If the reported incidence of death, myocarditis, seizures, etc is greater than the background rate, shouldn’t we have concern about that?

Or just call the death or serious illness of kids “coincidence”

The things you noted were statistically insignificant from those who hadn't received the vaccine.

You'd have known that had you read the JAMA article I put in front of your face.
 
One of my employees won $1,000 on the way home from getting the vaccine off a scratcher.

Coincidence?
Having a hard time responding to this. But congratulations to your friend. Also glad they don't have to worry about future health problems, medical bills and funeral expenses. Also those I know, that have been affected, their Dr.s said that they have seen this in some recently vaccinated people but atlast, no possible compensation from drug companies.
 
The things you noted were statistically insignificant from those who hadn't received the vaccine.

You'd have known that had you read the JAMA article I put in front of your face.

We can’t move on to anything else until you’re willing to accept that I was correct. How can I have a serious conversation with you about this if you continue to claim I’m lying about the 18k reported to VAERS?
 
Having a hard time responding to this. But congratulations to your friend. Also glad they don't have to worry about future health problems, medical bills and funeral expenses. Also those I know, that have been affected, their Dr.s said that they have seen this in some recently vaccinated people but atlast, no possible compensation from drug companies.

I'll let her know you said kudos.
 
When you state the number of Covid deaths due you state them as “reported deaths of people with Covid” or just from Covid?

Yes there’s a background death rate, obviously. X number of people will die within 2 weeks of vaccination just like x number of people will die within 2 weeks of Covid diagnosis.

Do you hold both sides to this absurd standard? Or is it fair to simply state 18k reported deaths? Seems that’s far more fair than the way Covid deaths have been stated as if they’re absolutes and 100% due to Covid. I’ve granted you from the start that I can’t proclaim all 18k are due to the vaccine, only that they’ve been reported to be due to the vaccine
The COVID deaths were inflated in 2021 due to a failure to put effort towards therapeutics. Relying only on the vaccine only is a massive failure that will contribute to more deaths. Once you go on a ventilator, it's hard to come back from that.
 
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We can’t move on to anything else until you’re willing to accept that I was correct. How can I have a serious conversation with you about this if you continue to claim I’m lying about the 18k reported to VAERS?

I'm not claiming you're lying about anything, not at all.

I've asked you to cite a reliable source that backs up your claim that nearly 20k have been killed by the vaccine.

VAERS doesn't say that.

Even if it did, VAERS is unreliable.

And even if it wasn't the 20k deaths you conjured up is statistically insignificant to the 240 million plus that have received the vaccine without any adverse reaction.

But I digress...

You glommed on to the 14k the was referenced as unrelated vaccine deaths as somehow being deaths caused by the vaccine and are now looking to redirect and deflect. You misunderstood what you were reading and your pride is not letting you reconcile it.
 

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