Vaccine or not?

[Rasputin_Vol]

Who the hell forced the employee to sign said contract? When does the individual own their decision to be employed at XYZ under terms they do not agree with?

Was injecting themselves with an untested, unapproved vaccine for a novel virus part of the original employment terms on many/any of these jobs? If not, then mandatory vaccinations for COVID is a violation of the original agreement.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I guess if you hired on with a company and initially it was a work from home position and they changed it to where you had to come to the office you'd want WC if you got hurt in a car wreck on your way.

Working from home vs injecting yourself with an experimental, untested vaccine are not in the same ballpark.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The individual always has a choice to follow company policies or leave, what I oppose is the .gov mandating company policies. Why is that hard for you to understand?
Since when does the government protect is a corporation liability from the government (other than pharmaceuticals)? If the .gov protects corporations from responsibility and liability why in the hell do I have to carry liability insurance?
The only person responsible for putting the vaccine into their bodies is the individual, it would be assault for any business to hold an employee down and inject them.
You sir are the hypocrite, you say you want individual freedom yet you do not want to accept the responsibility for your own decisions.

That is exactly what was happening with these vaccine mandates.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I don't carry liability insurance? That is news me, thanks for letting me know.

No I do not place the rights of a business above the rights of the individual, both should be free to chose the best courses of action for themselves without .gov input, force or coercion. You want the .gov to mandate what one can and cannot do while absolving the other from any responsibility and that makes you the hypocrite.

You sound like a person that thinks they are entitled to employment.

Again, this is exactly what was happening.

 

[EasternVol]

Ok so nobody is going to say it ? Joe has a master plan … he allowed the crown prince to give him the Wu Han ( fist bump ) , so we could declare the royal family terrorists , take over their oil fields and shut down fossil fuels globally . He’s going to be a bigger hero than that little German girl , WhatsHerFace.

Heidi? Eva Braun? Katarina Witt?

 

[VolinWayne]

Four Canadian Doctors in Toronto Area Died Last Week. No real investigations into the cause.

Three of the doctors are from the same hospital system — Trillium Health, which serves Mississauga and western Toronto in the Canadian province of Ontario.

The deceased are:

Dr Paul D. Hannam, died July 16
Dr. Lorne E. Segall, died July 17
Dr. Stephen W. McKenzie, died July 18
Dr. Jakub T. Sawicki, died on or before July 21
The last three listed are from Trillium, while Doctor Hannam worked as an emergency medicine physician at North York General Hospital in Toronto.

 

[hog88]

Hog, when these people were hired pre-COVID, was there likely any vaccination requirements for untested, unapproved vaccines in their original employment documents? I guess I'm asking why do you think it is reasonable for an employer to change the rules of the game in such a manner that threatens their job and their long term health when rolling the dice on unproven vaccines were not a part of life prior to that?

What obligation does the employer have to stick to the original agreed upon terms when they hired these people?

No obligation whatsoever (unless there is a contract) just like the employee is under no obligation to stick to the original terms of employment.

 

[RikidyBones]

When DeSantis made some of his decisions, there were some in here that criticized him. I'll include myself in that group partially because I was aware that in the future, this might be flipped back on businesses if a Democrat gets in. But desperate times called for desperate measures.

This is where I stood then and now with DeSantis. At that point there were two choice in this country. Mandated vaccine, first of it's kind in most employment or stopping that by state law/EO.

The idea of fighting against corporations that are national or spans multiple states is a harsh task to ask a significant amount of people that didn't have a reasonable expectation of such a condition. My company had everything in order for a mandate. I was going to have to quit in the middle of a pandemic or get it. Then Desantis stepped in and legal had to rethink.

With everything coming out about this vaccine in my age range, I am thankful for it.

 

[hog88]

I think this is a unique situation that needed to be addressed with a unique solution.

When you start making exceptions for unique situations you have what we just witnessed, govt intervention. Keep the .gov out of all employment policies and let the market work itself out.

 

[hog88]

When DeSantis made some of his decisions, there were some in here that criticized him. I'll include myself in that group partially because I was aware that in the future, this might be flipped back on businesses if a Democrat gets in. But desperate times called for desperate measures.

Just like CA did with the TX abortion law, another state or FL governor will take what DeSantis did use it against the very people DeSantis thought he was protecting. He didn’t do anyone any favors.

 

[RikidyBones]

Just like CA did with the TX abortion law, another state or FL governor will take what DeSantis did use it against the very people DeSantis thought he was protecting. He didn’t do anyone any favors.

Lawmakers can take that power away from Desantis or any governor

Also this argument is poor. Sacrifice your family in a time of massive uncertainty or risk dying early, having complications because the gov demanded so you can avoid the same thing happening down the road? If the gov tries to mandate and NO ONE fights back, that opens the door to more nonsense. I disagree with your results of Desantis decision being worse for the people.

 

[BP4Prez]

Fauci on changes in womens menstrual cycle: “we need to study it more”. Lol 3 years later

 

[hog88]

Lawmakers can take that power away from Desantis or any governor

Also this argument is poor. Sacrifice your family in a time of massive uncertainty or risk dying early, having complications because the gov demanded so you can avoid the same thing happening down the road? If the gov tries to mandate and NO ONE fights back, that opens the door to more nonsense. I disagree with your results of Desantis decision being worse for the people.

One day you’ll look back and realized DeSantis opened the door for **** you disagree with.

 

[RikidyBones]

One day you’ll look back and realized DeSantis opened the door for **** you disagree with.

And if he did nothing, the feds would have opened the door to do **** I disagree with. I can't hold Florida politicians more accountable than I can the feds. I'm cool with it given the alternative.

His decision wasn't in a vacuum. If it was then I'd agree with you.

 

[hog88]

And if he did nothing, the feds would have opened the door to do **** I disagree with. I can't hold Florida politicians more accountable than I can the feds. I'm cool with it given the alternative.

His decision wasn't in a vacuum. If it was then I'd agree with you.

DeSantis could have simply come out and declared the federal vax mandate was null and void in the state of FL and left it up to the employees and employers to decide on their own.

 

[RikidyBones]

DeSantis could have simply come out and declared the federal vax mandate was null and void in the state of FL and left it up to the employees and employers to decide on their own.

No he couldn't. That has zero backing. We then arrive at the same spot as before. The feds mandating a vaccine on a business.

It's no more consequential than Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy

 

[hog88]

No he couldn't. That has zero backing. We then arrive at the same spot as before. The feds mandating a vaccine on a business.

It's no more consequential than Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy

Overbearing gov mandates are overbearing gov mandates, you just happen to agree with the ones DeSantis issued.

 

[RikidyBones]

Overbearing gov mandates are overbearing gov mandates, you just happen to agree with the ones DeSantis issued.

Again. Ones federal and one is a state responding to that. I'll take the state. There's no third choice unfortunately. You'd rather desantis sit down and shut up about a federal overreach. You'd rather set the stage for more federal overreach than state. That doesn't make sense.

 

[hog88]

Again. Ones federal and one is a state responding to that. I'll take the state. There's no third choice unfortunately. You'd rather desantis sit down and shut up about a federal overreach. You'd rather set the stage for more federal overreach than state. That doesn't make sense.

No, I'd rather DeSantis or any other governor refused to allow the federal mandates be enforced within their state without enacting similar overbearing mandates. Let the Feds take the state to court and tie it up for years if it came to that. Tyranny is tyranny no matter what coat it wears.

 

[VolinWayne]

New England Journal of Medicine: Unvaccinated COVID Patients Are Contagious for LESS Time Than those Vaxed or Boosted.

Astudy published in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that people vaccinated against COVID-19 remained contagious with the virus for a longer period of time than their unvaccinated counterparts.


The disparity in contagiousness was particularly pronounced between the unvaccinated and individuals who did not receive a booster shot.

The findings were published in a letter to the editor signed by dozens of doctors from a variety of hospitals in Boston, Massachusetts in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine in June. From July 2021 through January 2022, researchers studied 66 participants who contracted COVID-19, including 32 people with the Delta variant and 34 with the Omicron variant.

 

[ButchPlz]

New England Journal of Medicine: Unvaccinated COVID Patients Are Contagious for LESS Time Than those Vaxed or Boosted.

Astudy published in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that people vaccinated against COVID-19 remained contagious with the virus for a longer period of time than their unvaccinated counterparts.


The disparity in contagiousness was particularly pronounced between the unvaccinated and individuals who did not receive a booster shot.

The findings were published in a letter to the editor signed by dozens of doctors from a variety of hospitals in Boston, Massachusetts in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine in June. From July 2021 through January 2022, researchers studied 66 participants who contracted COVID-19, including 32 people with the Delta variant and 34 with the Omicron variant.

I was about to come post this. Here's another link: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2202092

 

[Sea Ray]

I was about to come post this. Here's another link: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2202092

The actual study doesn't really say what that article claimed. Here's what it said:

There were no appreciable between-group differences in the time to PCR conversion or culture conversion according to vaccination status, although the sample size was quite small, which led to imprecision in the estimates (Figure 1D and 1E).

It also said this of note:

Although vaccination has been shown to reduce the incidence of infection and the severity of disease, we did not find large differences in the median duration of viral shedding among participants who were unvaccinated, those who were vaccinated but not boosted, and those who were vaccinated and boosted.

Note the bolded. The study recognizes and accepts that vaccination reduces the incidence and the severity of disease. If it does that then that is something of significance

 

[VolinWayne]

I was about to come post this. Here's another link: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2202092

The more and more evidence that continues to come out it is becoming clearer by the day that somebody needs to be held responsible for this. How could somebody screw this up so badly and then mandate it on such a large scale. Even Trump is to proud to admit that the vaccines he pushed are a major failure.

 

[RikidyBones]

No, I'd rather DeSantis or any other governor refused to allow the federal mandates be enforced within their state without enacting similar overbearing mandates. Let the Feds take the state to court and tie it up for years if it came to that. Tyranny is tyranny no matter what coat it wears.

Silly.

How do you refuse to allow the federal mandates get enforced by just saying it in a press release? Say a company like Target, who is nation wide and per the federal mandate, has to require a vaccine. Target will require it and what can the employee do about it? Nothing. The federal mandate is being enforced by the companies whether he declared it enforceable or not. Nothing the state did stopped it, legally. The feds won't take a state to court for stating it's not enforced when it's still being done. So you an need EO or the legislature to pass a bill to counter it in the state of Florida. Just pounding the table encourages federal overreach.

 

[hog88]

Silly.

How do you refuse to allow the federal mandates get enforced by just saying it in a press release? Say a company like Target, who is nation wide and per the federal mandate, has to require a vaccine. Target will require it and what can the employee do about it? Nothing. The federal mandate is being enforced by the companies whether he declared it enforceable or not. Nothing the state did stopped it, legally. The feds won't take a state to court for stating it's not enforced when it's still being done. So you an need EO or the legislature to pass a bill to counter it in the state of Florida. Just pounding the table encourages federal overreach.

Then how did DeSantis' mandate stop Target from enforcing the federal mandate? Over reach is over reach whether at the state or federal level, both are wrong and both Biden and DeSantis are guilty of it.