Vaccine or not?

[RikidyBones]

Then how did DeSantis' mandate stop Target from enforcing the federal mandate? Over reach is over reach whether at the state or federal level, both are wrong and both Biden and DeSantis are guilty of it.

It was a bill from the legislature that made it illegal in Florida. Desantis didn't veto it. He signed it after being voted on. Biden did it through the executive branch. Legislatures had nothing to do with it.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis Signs Bills Regarding Vaccine Mandates | Insights | Holland & Knight

 

[Orangeburst]

Four Canadian Doctors in Toronto Area Died Last Week. No real investigations into the cause.

Three of the doctors are from the same hospital system — Trillium Health, which serves Mississauga and western Toronto in the Canadian province of Ontario.

The deceased are:

Dr Paul D. Hannam, died July 16
Dr. Lorne E. Segall, died July 17
Dr. Stephen W. McKenzie, died July 18
Dr. Jakub T. Sawicki, died on or before July 21
The last three listed are from Trillium, while Doctor Hannam worked as an emergency medicine physician at North York General Hospital in Toronto.

What type of practices were they?

 

[hog88]

It was a bill from the legislature that made it illegal in Florida. Desantis didn't veto it. He signed it after being voted on. Biden did it through the executive branch. Legislatures had nothing to do with it.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis Signs Bills Regarding Vaccine Mandates | Insights | Holland & Knight

DeSantis could have vetoed it, it would have been the right thing to do.

 

[RikidyBones]

DeSantis could have vetoed it, it would have been the right thing to do.

Go against the legislative branch that the people elected to make laws that will streamline a federal bureaucratic mandate into the state? Nah. I don't agree at all.

 

[Vol423]

DeSantis could have vetoed it, it would have been the right thing to do.

I disagree. Why do you think DeSantis should have vetoed it?

 

[hog88]

Go against the legislative branch that the people elected to make laws that will streamline a federal bureaucratic mandate into the state? Nah. I don't agree at all.

The legislation didn't streamline the federal bureaucratic anything. And yes, the executive is supposed to be the adult and veto bad legislation.

 

[VolinWayne]

What type of practices were they?

From what I have read, Dr. Segall served as head of Otolaryngology, Dr. McKenzie was a neurologist, Dr. Sawicki was into pain medicine. Not a lot of details, it just appears a bit suspicious.

 

[RikidyBones]

The legislation didn't streamline the federal bureaucratic anything. And yes, the executive is supposed to be the adult and veto bad legislation.

It would into the state of Florida if not passed. The damage to families is done by the time it hits the court.

A state law is preferred over a bureaucratic regulation that was directed by one person.

I just disagree it was bad legislation as it wasn't in a vacuum and fought directly against federal overreach from an agency that is not elected.

Anyways just like last time, we won't agree on it. Lol

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

COVID vaccine mandates from Biden admin may cripple National Guard

About to lose 60,000 national guard. Yes 60,000

Porous border... weakened military.

good job @luthervol and the rest of you socialist ****s.

 

[VolinWayne]

So apparantly a doctor in Australia has been fired for soundong the alarm on miscarriages in vaccinayed women. Dr Luke McLindon leads the fertility services at the Mater hospital and is the principal investigator for a series of randomised controlled trials. He is also the President of the Australasian Institute for restorative Reproductive Medicine! He is top Dr in Australia in this field!

Doctor who monitored miscarriages in women pre- and post-cv substance jab and found they increased, gets sacked

 

[GroverCleveland]

The legislation didn't streamline the federal bureaucratic anything. And yes, the executive is supposed to be the adult and veto bad legislation.

Just read the summary on it and did not see anything that jumped out as egregious overreach by the state government. Seems to put protections in for the people from government overreach. What in particular did you see a problem with?

 

[hog88]

Just read the summary on it and did not see anything that jumped out as egregious overreach by the state government. Seems to put protections in for the people from government overreach. What in particular did you see a problem with?

From his EO:

From the legislation:

Private Employer COVID-19 vaccine mandates are prohibited.
‣ Employees can choose from numerous exemptions, including but not limited to, health or religious concerns; pregnancy or anticipated future pregnancy; and past recovery from COVID-19.
‣ Employees can choose to opt for periodic testing or PPE as an exemption.
‣ Employers must cover the costs of testing and PPE exemptions for employees.

 

[GroverCleveland]

From his EO:



From the legislation:

On the EO, seems he is prohibiting Florida state agencies from sharing information about a citizen out of hand? Is that not your take? I personally would prefer information an agency has gathered about me to not be shared without my knowledge or consent.

I'm closer to having a problem with the latter on private concerns regarding vaccine mandates because of the private/public line. My wife was works somewhere they instituted a vaccine mandate. They wound up granting a lot of exemptions, mostly religious, because enough people kicked back about it. They also provide the weekly testing, although that seems to have become a joke.

 

[hog88]

On the EO, seems he is prohibiting Florida state agencies from sharing information about a citizen out of hand? Is that not your take? I personally would prefer information an agency has gathered about me to not be shared without my knowledge or consent.

I'm closer to having a problem with the latter on private concerns regarding vaccine mandates because of the private/public line. My wife was works somewhere they instituted a vaccine mandate. They wound up granting a lot of exemptions, mostly religious, because enough people kicked back about it. They also provide the weekly testing, although that seems to have become a joke.

Sorry, I posted the wrong section of the EO, this is the one I have a problem with.

I get why people support these actions, they believe DeSantis and other governors who did the same are protecting them. What they fail to understand is just like the TX abortion law, another state or a change in the governor/legislature of their state could (probably will) lead to the precedent being used for something they absolutely oppose.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Sorry, I posted the wrong section of the EO, this is the one I have a problem with.



I get why people support these actions, they believe DeSantis and other governors who did the same are protecting them. What they fail to understand is just like the TX abortion law, another state or a change in the governor/legislature of their state could (probably will) lead to the precedent being used for something they absolutely oppose.

Yeah, I see that. I've always maintained be careful of what you wish for from the government. You may get it.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

No obligation whatsoever (unless there is a contract) just like the employee is under no obligation to stick to the original terms of employment.

You serious? No obligation?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

When you start making exceptions for unique situations you have what we just witnessed, govt intervention. Keep the .gov out of all employment policies and let the market work itself out.

I understand what you are saying to a certain extent, but in this unique situation, you have to put the rights of individuals over the whims of govts or businesses.

 

[hog88]

You serious? No obligation?

None, they can quit at anytime without notice and there is nothing the employer can do.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Just like CA did with the TX abortion law, another state or FL governor will take what DeSantis did use it against the very people DeSantis thought he was protecting. He didn’t do anyone any favors.

I'm fully aware of the slippery slope argument you are making. But in this situation, DeSantis had to take desperate measures to protect individual rights. You put 1000 issues in front of me and there will likely be 990 of them that I would agree with you on. But the idea of individuals being coerced into taking an experimental jab is simply unacceptable.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

One day you’ll look back and realized DeSantis opened the door for **** you disagree with.

Possibly. I think most reasonable can see that is a potential Pandora's box. That is why I was kind of on the fence about his decisions.

 

[hog88]

I'm fully aware of the slippery slope argument you are making. But in this situation, DeSantis had to take desperate measures to protect individual rights. You put 1000 issues in front of me and there will likely be 990 of them that I would agree with you on. But the idea of individuals being coerced into taking an experimental jab is simply unacceptable.

No he didn't. He could have easily just issued an EO stating the federal vax mandates would not be enforced in his state, it would have the same effect without trampling the rights of business owners.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

DeSantis could have simply come out and declared the federal vax mandate was null and void in the state of FL and left it up to the employees and employers to decide on their own.

And the Feds would have then coerced employers by withholding Federal funding or come up with some other measure. Plus, most of these decisionmakers are just bandwagon followers and virtue signalers today. There would have been very few places for employees to go if we would have allowed the "free market" to decide. Everyone would have had a vaccination policy.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

No, I'd rather DeSantis or any other governor refused to allow the federal mandates be enforced within their state without enacting similar overbearing mandates. Let the Feds take the state to court and tie it up for years if it came to that. Tyranny is tyranny no matter what coat it wears.

Well calling it tyranny is a bit of a reach. DeSantis's actions empowered individuals. It didn't place unnecessary burdens on them.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

New England Journal of Medicine: Unvaccinated COVID Patients Are Contagious for LESS Time Than those Vaxed or Boosted.

Astudy published in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that people vaccinated against COVID-19 remained contagious with the virus for a longer period of time than their unvaccinated counterparts.


The disparity in contagiousness was particularly pronounced between the unvaccinated and individuals who did not receive a booster shot.

The findings were published in a letter to the editor signed by dozens of doctors from a variety of hospitals in Boston, Massachusetts in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine in June. From July 2021 through January 2022, researchers studied 66 participants who contracted COVID-19, including 32 people with the Delta variant and 34 with the Omicron variant.

Well, I'm rather disappointed at the small sample size... especially in a city the size of Boston. The fact checkers will likely use that as a way to punch holes in it.

 

[hog88]

And the Feds would have then coerced employers by withholding Federal funding or come up with some other measure. Plus, most of these decisionmakers are just bandwagon followers and virtue signalers today. There would have been very few places for employees to go if we would have allowed the "free market" to decide. Everyone would have had a vaccination policy.

They did that anyway with healthcare facilities receiving federal dollars and federal contractors. DeSantis' EO nor the legislation prevented any portion of those mandates from going into effect, it just put the HC employers, federal contractors and their employees in an even worse spot. State law doesn't supersede federal.