Vaccine or not?

[kiddiedoc]

The state wouldn't have needed to act had it not been for Biden and the Feds.

Ding ding ding!

DeSantis had to step in because businesses were making decisions based on bad information and questionable recommendations from agencies and entities that they have traditionally trusted.

 

[utvolpj]

Ding ding ding!

DeSantis had to step in because businesses were making decisions based on bad information and questionable recommendations from agencies and entities that they have traditionally trusted.

So when else is that going to apply? Seems like a dangerous precedent to have govt step in because of bad information and questionable recommendations from agencies

 

[kiddiedoc]

So when else is that going to apply? Seems like a dangerous precedent to have govt step in because of bad information and questionable recommendations from agencies

That's a very good question. This situation highlights why it is so important that the FDA and CDC are diligent and transparent, and why dissenting opinions and recommendations from, say, other physician groups should not be censored. The way CV19 was handled (and still is, to a large degree) did not allow businesses and individuals to make a truly "informed" decision.

 

[kiddiedoc]

If, for instance, the following information was included, do you think businesses would push mandates?

- young healthy children face virtually zero risk from the virus
- an increased rate of miscarriages after vaccination is being investigated
- many women suffer from a variety a menstrual irregularities after vaccination, including an extended period of anovulation (= sterility)
- young men especially have a significantly increased risk of myocarditis after vaccination
- the current circulating strain does not match the strain in the available vaccine
- recovery after natural infection induces at least as strong of an immune response as vaccination
Etc...

 

[whodeycin85]

If, for instance, the following information was included, do you think businesses would push mandates?

- young healthy children face virtually zero risk from the virus
- an increased rate of miscarriages after vaccination is being investigated
- many women suffer from a variety a menstrual irregularities after vaccination, including an extended period of anovulation (= sterility)
- young men especially have a significantly increased risk of myocarditis after vaccination
- the current circulating strain does not match the strain in the available vaccine
- recovery after natural infection induces at least as strong of an immune response as vaccination
Etc...

Or if companies were held liable for thoae adverse effects of a vax requirement.....

 

[VolinWayne]

Health Care Workers Who Sued Over COVID-19 Vaccine Mandate Win $10 Million Settlement Health Care Workers Who Sued Over COVID-19 Vaccine Mandate Win $10 Million Settlement

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Health Care Workers Who Sued Over COVID-19 Vaccine Mandate Win $10 Million Settlement Health Care Workers Who Sued Over COVID-19 Vaccine Mandate Win $10 Million Settlement

paywall....

but the headline is GREAT news.

 

[VolinWayne]

paywall....

but the headline is GREAT news.

A group of health care workers who sued their hospital over a COVID-19 vaccine mandate are slated to receive $10 million, according to a settlement agreement filed on July 29.
About a dozen workers at the NorthShore University HealthSystem in Illinois lodged the suit in October 2021, arguing that the facility was illegally not granting religious exemptions to the mandate.


After eight months of negotiations, the workers and NorthShore “have agreed to settle this case,” according to a memorandum filed in federal court.

Under the settlement’s terms, NorthShore will pay $10,337,500 into a settlement fund for workers affected by its mandate—specifically, workers who between July 1, 2021, and Jan. 1, 2022, asked for a religious accommodation and were denied and either received a vaccine to avoid termination or were fired or resigned. About 473 workers fit under that category.

 

[kiddiedoc]

A group of health care workers who sued their hospital over a COVID-19 vaccine mandate are slated to receive $10 million, according to a settlement agreement filed on July 29.
About a dozen workers at the NorthShore University HealthSystem in Illinois lodged the suit in October 2021, arguing that the facility was illegally not granting religious exemptions to the mandate.


After eight months of negotiations, the workers and NorthShore “have agreed to settle this case,” according to a memorandum filed in federal court.

Under the settlement’s terms, NorthShore will pay $10,337,500 into a settlement fund for workers affected by its mandate—specifically, workers who between July 1, 2021, and Jan. 1, 2022, asked for a religious accommodation and were denied and either received a vaccine to avoid termination or were fired or resigned. About 473 workers fit under that category.

Sounds like the hospital got off easy. That's only a little over $20,000/employee

 

[VolinWayne]

Sounds like the hospital got off easy. That's only a little over $20,000/employee

Good point. At least it's a start.

 

[LouderVol]

They are pushing the vaccines hard again. Seen on multiple websites, tv, even in print. They are getting desperate.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So when else is that going to apply? Seems like a dangerous precedent to have govt step in because of bad information and questionable recommendations from agencies

I understand the slippery slope concerns. It was a very unique situation. We can just deal with the consequences later.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Or if companies were held liable for thoae adverse effects of a vax requirement.....

Hell, forget the companies (I assume you mean employers). Hold the damn drug companies liable.

 

[NurseGoodVol]

Was injecting themselves with an untested, unapproved vaccine for a novel virus part of the original employment terms on many/any of these jobs? If not, then mandatory vaccinations for COVID is a violation of the original agreement.

It was one of those nambypamby clauses in my contract that says I would follow the policies of the institution. Contracts are written to be all encompassing protection for the business.

 

[NurseGoodVol]

They are pushing the vaccines hard again. Seen on multiple websites, tv, even in print. They are getting desperate.

Mmm.. I’m still feeling no.

 

[RikidyBones]

 

[ButchPlz]

Literally has been this way for all sorts of drugs. The approving bodies are staffed or owned by pharmaceutical companies. Until recently leftoids had a problem with this- now it's a good thing.

 

[VolinWayne]

20-Year-Old College Basketball Player Drops Dead from ‘Cardiac Event’


“[Coach Pat] Miller said more than 100 children ages 10 through 17 were attending the camp Sunday and being treated to pizza courtside as Gray, other players, counselors and coaches played on the court.


‘He was not labored, there was nothing we saw,’ Miller said of the 20-year-old Gray.
Miller told 27 News when Gray collapsed, he thought the player experienced a seizure.”


Coach: Whitewater basketball player's sudden death cardiac-related

 

[RikidyBones]

Literally has been this way for all sorts of drugs. The approving bodies are staffed or owned by pharmaceutical companies. Until recently leftoids had a problem with this- now it's a good thing.

The documentary "The Bleeding Edge" shows how nonsensical and worthless the FDA can be.

 

[hUTch2002]

Hey NGV. Thanks for another good post.

Without typing a novel, this is what happened to my FIL...an otherwise healthy 60yo carpenter who worked with his hands right up until the day before he was hospitalized...with my wife going to the hospital and speaking with DRs abd being as close to him as she could all day every day for 37 days:

Admitted with covid. No remdesivir or other antivirals. Knocked out and vented..

21 days not being allowed to see him even for a moment...despite my wife begging DRs, admin, lots of crying etc. No drugs given in this time to treat the actual illness. Feed tube inserted etc.

Day 21 wife gets in...stays at hospital every possible moment from then on reading to him, praying, playing music from church etc. DRs treat secondary infections from feeding tube etc, wife records his DR on audio refusing to feed my FIL anymore on about day 31...plays recording for hospital admin...gets new DRs. New Dr is a female Christian lady who is still friends with my wife today. She is sympathetic but guidelines are same. FIL still sedated and receiving no treatment other than fighting secondary infections.

Day 37 my FIL dies. Wrecks my wife of course and her entire family. Very codependent tightnit group. The only treatment he received in 37 days in hospital was paralytic/sedatives and a ventilator. Zero drugs were ever given to fight covid or help him recover. They took him in, locked us out for 21 days, knocked him out and said "hopefully his body will beat this on its own from this comatose state." It did not obviously.

My MIL got the bill and it is over 1 million dollars because they did not have medical insurance. She will never be able to repay that, especially without her husband of 40 years .

Holy crap dude. That’s so shocking I’m not even sure what to say. I’m sorry for your family’s loss. She should send the hospital $1 every week and write on it, “This is for killing my husband. I hope you enjoy taking it from this widow.”

 

[hUTch2002]

I'm not saying they should have the right to "do what they want" that's an asinine oversimplification. All I'm saying is business should have the same rights of free association in setting their employment and service policies as any individual does. If I could "do what I wanted" I wouldn't be paying taxes, insurance, I'd strip all the pollution control of my trucks and dump the waste we haul in Manhattan for free.

 

[hUTch2002]

Where the hell do you rubes get that I want anyone held to a different standard? If you want to trade your labor for someone else's money do what they ask you to do or move the hell on down the road. I don't want the .gov mandating decisions out of the individuals or businesses hands.

I guess if you hired on with a company and initially it was a work from home position and they changed it to where you had to come to the office you'd want WC if you got hurt in a car wreck on your way.

That’s an interesting scenario you gave on the WC claim. It’s ironic because you run a trucking company and so many lawsuits happen over the gray area of an independent contractor being “entitled” to a trip home after delivery. If you’re all employee drivers you might not be familiar with the issue but if you have ever employed or worked with contractors then I’m sure you know all about what I mentioned. Anyway, I just thought it was an ironic scenario. I hope your business is going well in these tough conditions.

 

[hUTch2002]

Most definitely you can be held responsible for criminal things- but that's an irrelevant situation. In general, piercing the corporate veil to pursue civil damages is highly, highly uncommon. Signing personal guarantees like you are discussing does not shift the burden of these things onto you personally. You may have some policies that state that coverage will not happen in cases of outright negligence, but again- not the same.

Regarding the second, I highly doubt it would be you, again personally, for the reasons in the exact second half of your post. Unless you are proven criminally negligent, then it's a different story.

The third is provably false. In every state in the United States there are strong requirements to allow someone to pierce the corporate veil and hold an individual owner responsible. Usually, these are also linked to criminal or otherwise egregious behavior. In forming a corporation, you colluded with the government to enable you to rely on your business as a shield from several- if not most- liabilities. That's unavoidable fact.

The issue I have with what you describe is you get morons that would be suing over decisions they simply don’t agree with to try and settle some personal vendetta. Believe me, I’ve seen how nasty things can be from both sides; individuals getting nasty with other employees and management when they don’t agree with things or are let go and companies getting nasty against former employees. To me, a lot of such frivolous lawsuits would be fixed if every state were a loser pays system. If you sue me and you lose then you pay my legal bills. Then maybe what you’re describing would work but in this lawsuit happy environment you’d be nuts to not choose some sort of legal separation (corporation, LLC, etc.).

I do understand what you mean though. You and hog aren’t actually as far apart on your views as it seems. You all are just coming from different perspectives and maybe have different thoughts on what “no government involvement“ means.

 

[hUTch2002]

That's an interesting question I havent figured out yet. Obviously if you are required to come in the office it's part of the job. So I would say it should be covered, like any business travel. But if you choose to live in BFville and have to commute 50 miles one way, everyday, that's not on the company. I would say various other considerations come into play. On the phone for a personal call, No WC. On the call with a client or in a meeting, probably WC. Leaving work to go run errands, no WC. Etc etc.

Idk maybe if there was some medium, but I have no idea how you police that either way.

Each state has their own guidance for such things. In general though, employees commuting to and from work would not be covered under Work Comp. That’s a huge oversimplification as there are situations that would change that and, again, each state sets their own WC laws.

 

[hUTch2002]

When you start making exceptions for unique situations you have what we just witnessed, govt intervention. Keep the .gov out of all employment policies and let the market work itself out.

I bet these individual businesses wouldn’t have mandated the vaccine without cover from the .gov when it came vaccine mandates. No way they take that step on their own when competitors aren’t. Once .gov gave them a reason to do so, sometimes forcefully, they did.