Vince Young soap opera

[cd12]

If I'm Fisher I start weighing my options. His relationship with Adams has been a time bomb since the drafting of Young. Adams has entertained the idea of canning him on more than one occassion and if Adams is publicly backing VY its time for Fisher to bolt. He won't be un employed long. I don't know the terms of his contract and with a lockout looming he may have to ride it out or force Bud's hand. Who would want to work for an owner that forces VY down your throat?

 

[KB5252]

Fisher is a good guy but what in his record warrants keeping him?

It's a case of be careful what you wish for. Nashville is a small market and any coach who comes in here with any serious aspirations of playoff wins and ultimately the Superbowl will know beforehand they will have to do more with less. This will automatically rule out big name coaches and limit our chances with quality, proven coaches.

Before you decide to let Fisher walk you must first identify coaches you believe are better or will produce better results. If you find that guy fine, pull the trigger and get it done. Honestly Bud doesn't care so much about winning as he does the bottom line, Vince is his special project and he has alienated a well respected coach in favor of a basket case qb. Quality coaches aren't stupid, they know this market is what it is and an owner siding with Young after throwing a tantrum that rivals those of teenage girls will keep any coach worth having away from this organization.

No matter what happens with Vince in this situation his days are numbered as a qb in the NFL. Even if Bud protects him he is so awkward at the position it is only a matter of time before he faces a career threatening injury. Every time I watch him in the game I expect him to be injured.

 

[TOP]

He who questions Fisher has no clue at all. I cant imagine, if you are a true fan, why you would be calling for his head.

Seriously, what am I missing?

Oh come on... I was a fan of the team when they were still in Houston. I'm as loyal they come to supporting my teams. Jeff Fisher is a Titans but he is not the Titans. Here is my reasoning for wanting a change:


Jon Gruden was fired 6 years after winning a SB.

Brian Billick was fired 7 years after winning a SB.

Mike Shanahan was fired 10 years after winning 2 SB's.

Jeff Fisher still has a job 11 years after not winning the SB.

159-107(59.8%) Shanahan
146-121(54.7%) Fisher
100-85 (54.1%) Gruden
85-67 (55.9%) Billick

Fisher has been given more time than any of them. Has less championships than all of them. Has a higher winning percentage than one of them.

If it wasn't for the fact that he and Bud Adam's are friends, he would have been fired by now. I'm not worried about the people saying "He'll find another job if he is fired". So did Steve Mariucci, Mike Shanahan, Eric Mangini, Tony Dungy, Mike Holmgren, Dennis Green etc. and the list goes on... Some were successful and some weren't. We can't worry about what he will do elsewhere. I'm worried about what the team is doing now and currently, they are doing nothing.

 

[TOP]

It's a case of be careful what you wish for. Nashville is a small market and any coach who comes in here with any serious aspirations of playoff wins and ultimately the Superbowl will know beforehand they will have to do more with less. This will automatically rule out big name coaches and limit our chances with quality, proven coaches.

Before you decide to let Fisher walk you must first identify coaches you believe are better or will produce better results. If you find that guy fine, pull the trigger and get it done. Honestly Bud doesn't care so much about winning as he does the bottom line, Vince is his special project and he has alienated a well respected coach in favor of a basket case qb. Quality coaches aren't stupid, they know this market is what it is and an owner siding with Young after throwing a tantrum that rivals those of teenage girls will keep any coach worth having away from this organization.

No matter what happens with Vince in this situation his days are numbered as a qb in the NFL. Even if Bud protects him he is so awkward at the position it is only a matter of time before he faces a career threatening injury. Every time I watch him in the game I expect him to be injured.

I disagree with pretty much everything you just said.

Why does market size matter? There is a salary cap. Bud Adams can afford to spend as much as anyone else.

As for Vince Young's days being numbered... the owner doesn't seem to share your sentiments. He overruled Jeff Fisher during the draft. He overruled Fisher to play VY over Kerry. Now, he is going to overrule Fisher again and fire him. Third times a charm.

 

[KB5252]

I disagree with pretty much everything you just said.

Why does market size matter? There is a salary cap. Bud Adams can afford to spend as much as anyone else.

As for Vince Young's days being numbered... the owner doesn't seem to share your sentiments. He overruled Jeff Fisher during the draft. He overruled Fisher to play VY over Kerry. Now, he is going to overrule Fisher again and fire him. Third times a charm.

The market size matters because large market teams generally make sure they get the best players on the field through free agency and keep those they get via the draft. This team over the last 4 to 6 years especially was put in the position where they had to do more with less.

What does any of that have to do with my comments about why I believe Young's days are numbered in spite of an owner protecting him?

Bud isn't half the personnel guy Jerry Jones is when it comes to pro football. What's your point?

 

[The Ron Mexico]

He who questions Fisher has no clue at all. I cant imagine, if you are a true fan, why you would be calling for his head.

Seriously, what am I missing?

And there it is. It took a little longer than usual for someone to break it out though.

 

[The Ron Mexico]

We will find out if Bud Adams truly is losing his mind this season if he sticks with Vince Young and lets Jeff Fisher get away.

 

[r3vo]

The problem is with Adams and Young, not Fisher.

 

[TrueOrange]

I disagree with pretty much everything you just said.

Why does market size matter? There is a salary cap. Bud Adams can afford to spend as much as anyone else.

As for Vince Young's days being numbered... the owner doesn't seem to share your sentiments. He overruled Jeff Fisher during the draft. He overruled Fisher to play VY over Kerry. Now, he is going to overrule Fisher again and fire him. Third times a charm.

No, there's not anymore.

Don't you remember, back in March, that big fuss about the owners and NFLPA negotiations falling through? Those were the talks about renewing the salary cap, and the owners opted out of it last spring.

That's one of the reasons the lockout is on the horizon: because part of the CBA renegotiations were regarding the salary cap, and instead those talks fell through.

 

[TrueOrange]

I disagree with pretty much everything you just said.

Why does market size matter? There is a salary cap. Bud Adams can afford to spend as much as anyone else.

As for Vince Young's days being numbered... the owner doesn't seem to share your sentiments. He overruled Jeff Fisher during the draft. He overruled Fisher to play VY over Kerry. Now, he is going to overrule Fisher again and fire him. Third times a charm.

you could also say though this owner's the reason for this franchise having been the pretty much crapshoot/joke it has been throughout its history. Just saying, talks about Adams have two sides.

 

[BJSforVols]

Nor will they win one with Young as QB.

I'm not convinced of that yet. I think Young and several of the players are very frustrated because of their head coach being so conservative. Young is just not very good at biting his tongue when he needs to bite it. Griffin trying to stop Young says there are guys who agree with whatever Young said. When a QB has as high of a passer rating as Young, and you only attempt 18 passes, you have a coaching problem.

 

[BJSforVols]

Trade Young (someone will want him) or dump him. Keep Fisher. Get a big check with Kevin Kolb's name on it

Why, so Fisher can tell Kolb to play conservative and loe close games?

 

[milohimself]

If he lets something like this make him throw a major hissy fit, he doesn't have the mental fortitude to be a championship QB. Have you heard some of the criticisms?

Trent Dilfer said it best, the guy has plateaued. IMO VY is a flat-out moron, in the truest sense of the word. He won't be starting for any teams with real aspirations again.

If y'all see fit to get rid of Fisher, I understand, the man hasn't done a lot in a while. But VY needs to go, and if you get rid of both, it's going to be a long while before the Titans will be relevant again. Like draft a good QB and wait type of thing.

 

[BJSforVols]

Anyone saying get rid of Fisher has lost their minds. Fisher would be hired the second he were fired...Vince Young couldn't get more on the open market right now than the league minimum.

Who are you going to replace Fisher with? Wade Phillips, Brad Childress? C'mon, don't be dumb. AND DON'T SAY JOHN GRUDEN! HE WOULD NEVER COME HERE AND TAKE INSTRUCTIONS FROM THE CRYPT KEEPER.

He won't get a chance because he's under a conservative coach who loses too much, but I'd prefer to see Dinger over Fisher as the head coach right now. Parcels would be a nice option. He built a program under Jerry Jones, so I'm sure he could do it under Adams. (I realize Bud would not pay for Parcels, but he would be a good fit with the Titans.)

 

[BJSforVols]

He who questions Fisher has no clue at all. I cant imagine, if you are a true fan, why you would be calling for his head.

Seriously, what am I missing?

Fisher is to the Titans what Fulmer was to the Vols. A good coach who would produce mediocre seasons and a sparatic good to very good season. He's loved by so many because he very seldom has a "bad" season.

 

[TrueOrange]

Fisher is to the Titans what Fulmer was to the Vols. A good coach who would produce mediocre seasons and a sparatic good to very good season. He's loved by so many because he very seldom has a "bad" season.

and there it is. I knew this comparison would come up eventually, it's all angry vol fans know to compare it to.

and no, not even close, sorry

 

[BJSforVols]

The market size matters because large market teams generally make sure they get the best players on the field through free agency and keep those they get via the draft. This team over the last 4 to 6 years especially was put in the position where they had to do more with less.

That's due to the management of the team and not the market size. The NFL is not like Major League baseball. The small market teams make money in the NFL and can buy free agents just as the large market teams provided the salary cap stays in place. That's one thing that makes the NFL a better marketing sports business than ML baseball, NHL, and NBA. The Titans choose a management style of stiking gold with a young up an comer and cutting ties with players as they become worthy of getting the big pay day. It has nothing to do with not being able to afford the big names.

 

[TrueOrange]

That's due to the management of the team and not the market size. The NFL is not like Major League baseball. The small market teams make money in the NFL and can buy free agents just as the large market teams provided the salary cap stays in place. That's one thing that makes the NFL a better marketing sports business than ML baseball, NHL, and NBA. The Titans choose a management style of stiking gold with a young up an comer and cutting ties with players as they become worthy of getting the big pay day. It has nothing to do with not being able to afford the big names.

There is no more salary cap. The league did away with it last spring.

that's a reason why their CBA is about to fall apart and the league's getting ready to lockout

 

[BJSforVols]

No, there's not anymore.

Don't you remember, back in March, that big fuss about the owners and NFLPA negotiations falling through? Those were the talks about renewing the salary cap, and the owners opted out of it last spring.

That's one of the reasons the lockout is on the horizon: because part of the CBA renegotiations were regarding the salary cap, and instead those talks fell through.

Technically, the salary cap exists until the end of this season. We're going off on a tangent here, but there will either be a salary cap or a lockout until something similar is agreed. The NFL will sink to levels of the NBA and Major League baseball if it lets the big markets take over the sport as they have done in other sports.

 

[BJSforVols]

and there it is. I knew this comparison would come up eventually, it's all angry vol fans know to compare it to.

and no, not even close, sorry

Sorry my friend, but you missed the boat on this one. I would probably considered a Fulmerite up until the day he was fired. I'm not an angry VOl fan at all. I've also been a Fisher fan for an extremely long time, but it's time for him to go. I don't think Young is a definate lock for solid QB or better, but I also don't think he's a definate bust yet. At this point in McNair's career, he was in no better shape than Young as far as on the field play. (McNair was worlds ahead of where Young is mentally though.)

Fisher coaches not to lose rather than to win which is the same mentality Fulmer had. Yes, this will keep you in most games, but it will not win the big games for you or the close games for you. You may be correct though. I don't think Fulmer went as long as Fisher has without winning his conference title.

 

[TrueOrange]

Technically, the salary cap exists until the end of this season. We're going off on a tangent here, but there will either be a salary cap or a lockout until something similar is agreed. The NFL will sink to levels of the NBA and Major League baseball if it lets the big markets take over the sport as they have done in other sports.

no dude, this was actually an uncapped year. that's why all the restricted free agency rules changed this last offseason - from 4 years to 6 years -, why the teams received a second franchise tag, and so on. That's why players like Lendale White - who was in the 4th year of his career and normally would have been unrestricted was restricted and kept (before trade).

I promise you, the cap already expired. It's gone unless a new CBA creates another one.

 

[BJSforVols]

There is no more salary cap. The league did away with it last spring.

that's a reason why their CBA is about to fall apart and the league's getting ready to lockout

Technically, it still exists until the end of this season. The teams are not sure what will come from the CBA and potential lockout, so free agency salaries were still kept to a minimum (considering the average pay in the NFL) due to concerns of getting within a new salary cap when/if the new CBA is agreed.

 

[TrueOrange]

Sorry my friend, but you missed the boat on this one. I would probably considered a Fulmerite up until the day he was fired. I'm not an angry VOl fan at all. I've also been a Fisher fan for an extremely long time, but it's time for him to go. I don't think Young is a definate lock for solid QB or better, but I also don't think he's a definate bust yet. At this point in McNair's career, he was in no better shape than Young as far as on the field play. (McNair was worlds ahead of where Young is mentally though.)

Fisher coaches not to lose rather than to win which is the same mentality Fulmer had. Yes, this will keep you in most games, but it will not win the big games for you or the close games for you. You may be correct though. I don't think Fulmer went as long as Fisher has without winning his conference title.

....the last conference title Fulmer won was 1998.....so unless the NFL's equivalent to winning the SEC championship is having to be one 2 teams that goes to the super bowl, then no

 

[TrueOrange]

Technically, it still exists until the end of this season.

again, no i promise you it was already killed by the owners. Look up some ESPN articles from back in march


and here

Salary cap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NFL owners voted in 2008 to opt out of the their collective bargaining agreement (CBA) with the National Football League Players Association (NFLPA) as of the end of the 2010 season. (The vote was 23 in favor, 9 against; the extension measure needed 24 to pass, which would have set the CBA to expire after the 2012 season). Since a new CBA was reached with the NFLPA, 2010 is an uncapped season,[31] meaning that there is no salary cap or salary floor between which teams must operate.[32] Also, the uncapped season limited unrestricted free agency only to players with at least six years of experience, as opposed to four under a capped season.[32] The final eight teams alive in the 2009–10 NFL playoffs (Arizona, Dallas, Minnesota and New Orleans in the NFC; and Baltimore, Indianapolis, the New York Jets and San Diego in the AFC) were restricted in the free agents they would be able to sign.[32]

 

[BJSforVols]

....the last conference title Fulmer won was 1998.....so unless the NFL's equivalent to winning the SEC championship is having to be one 2 teams that goes to the super bowl, then no

And Fisher's last was 99. Fisher has coached 2 seasons since Fulmer was fired, so yes Fisher has gone one more season than Fulmer since he won his conference. Keep in mind that Fulmer won the NC that same year which would be equilivent to Fisher winning the Superbowl. Oh yea, Fisher didn't win it that year did he?