Vince Young soap opera

[BJSforVols]

again, no i promise you it was already killed by the owners. Look up some ESPN articles from back in march


and here

Salary cap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As stated above, the teams are unsure of what will come from a new CBA when/if it is agreed, so they free agency period was handled as if the salary cap was still in place. If the new CBA does not include a salary cap or at least something similar, you will then see the large market take overs you are suggesting with a non-salary cap. The NFL would be committing suicide if they allow that to happen. I'm not saying they won't either. Greed can take over in situations such as this. But, if they (the NFL) think for the long term furture, a salary cap will be included with the new CBA.

 

[TrueOrange]

And Fisher's last was 99. Fisher has coached 2 seasons since Fulmer was fired, so yes Fisher has gone one more season than Fulmer since he won his conference. Keep in mind that Fulmer won the NC that same year which would be equilivent to Fisher winning the Superbowl. Oh yea, Fisher didn't win it that year did he?

you made the wrong comparison there....way wrong.

Your conference championship in college is your division championship in the NFL.

If you really, really want to talk about how long since he won the AFC championship -- since that is again saying you are 1 of the 2 teams playing in the championship -- that's making the comparison to how long since a college coach's team made it to the BCS national championship game.

The SEC championship and the AFC championship are a world of difference. That's why your comparison is faulty. (Despite calling themselves conferences, they are the college football equivalents of the NFL's division set up.)

 

[TrueOrange]

As stated above, the teams are unsure of what will come from a new CBA when/if it is agreed, so they free agency period was handled as if the salary cap was still in place. If the new CBA does not include a salary cap or at least something similar, you will then see the large market take overs you are suggesting with a non-salary cap. The NFL would be committing suicide if they allow that to happen. I'm not saying they won't either. Greed can take over in situations such as this. But, if they (the NFL) think for the long term furture, a salary cap will be included with the new CBA.

The owners don't want one anymore. They were the ones who opted out of it. A sizable number of them think the league works just as fine/ better without it.

 

[BJSforVols]

The owners don't want one anymore. They were the ones who opted out of it. A sizable number of them think the league works just as fine/ better without it.

It's the big owners such as Snyder and Jones (Greed), but they are influencing many of the smaller market owners. I still expect the big owners to lose out on this eventually and a salary cap will be in place. It may get more liberal such as the NBA salary cap, but I doubt they get rid of it completely.

 

[BJSforVols]

you made the wrong comparison there....way wrong.

Your conference championship in college is your division championship in the NFL.

If you really, really want to talk about how long since he won the AFC championship -- since that is again saying you are 1 of the 2 teams playing in the championship -- that's making the comparison to how long since a college coach's team made it to the BCS national championship game.

How so? Because it helps your side of the debate? Let see:

Super bowl (32 Teams) - BCS National Title (Many more than 32 Teams)
AFC Championship (16 teams) - SEC Championship (16 Teams)
AFC South Division (4 Teams) - SEC East Division (6 Teams)


Explain again why the first level of NFL titles is equivalent to the second level of college football within the SEC?

The SEC championship and the AFC championship are a world of difference. That's why your comparison is faulty. (Despite calling themselves conferences, they are the college football equivalents of the NFL's division set up.)

I would argue that it's tougher to win a conference title in the SEC at the collegiate level than the conference title at the NFL level beings you can easily win a conference title in the NFL with 4 to 6 losses. Chances of winning a SEC title with 2 losses are slim and almost impossible with more than 2 losses.

 

[TrueOrange]

It's the big owners such as Snyder and Jones (Greed), but they are influencing many of the smaller market owners. I still expect the big owners to lose out on this eventually and a salary cap will be in place. It may get more liberal such as the NBA salary cap, but I doubt they get rid of it completely.

the analysts have pretty much said going into last year, the cap was set up in a way that - as a "threat," for a lack of better words, to keep it from expiring - that too many hurdles are put in the way.....or in simpler terms: it's set up was such that if it was allowed to expire, it would be extremely difficult to set it up again.

This was all coming from the sports analysts, who make it their job to study every little thing about the NFL day in and out. They're the ones who understand this.

 

[TrueOrange]

How so? Because it helps your side of the debate? Let see:

Super bowl (32 Teams) - BCS National Title (Many more than 32 Teams)
AFC Championship (16 teams) - SEC Championship (16 Teams)
AFC South Division (4 Teams) - SEC East Division (6 Teams)


Explain again why the first level of NFL titles is equivalent to the second level of college football within the SEC?

Because getting to the top 2 spots, being one of the NFL's 2 best teams, receiving the chance to play in their league championship is not the same as winning the SEC's conference championship, that very well can mean diddly squat as far as who plays for the national championship any given year.

I'm glad some basic numbers work for your argument, all that's showing though is that there are less NFL franchises than there are college teams.

 

[BJSforVols]

the analysts have pretty much said going into last year, the cap was set up in a way that - as a "threat," for a lack of better words, to keep it from expiring - that too many hurdles are put in the way.....or in simpler terms: it's set up was such that if it was allowed to expire, it would be extremely difficult to set it up again.

This was all coming from the sports analysts, who make it their job to study every little thing about the NFL day in and out. They're the ones who understand this.

Agree, but their tunes have changed now. They also expected a new CBA before the season started when they were making those claims.

 

[BJSforVols]

Because getting to the top 2 spots, being one of the NFL's 2 best teams, receiving the chance to play in their league championship is not the same as winning the SEC's conference championship, that very well can mean diddly squat as far as who plays for the national championship any given year.

I'm glad some basic numbers work for your argument, all that's showing though is that there are less NFL franchises than there are college teams.

I agree with you on that. If you get into the superbowl, it is equivalent to getting into the BCS National title game since both games are the top 2 teams for their respective level of play.

Here's where we differ. Getting into the SEC Championship game is equivalent to getting into the AFC conference championship game in my opinion. You seem to disagree and say a college team needs to get into the BCS title game in order to be equivalent to maiking it into the AFC conference championship game.

Your logic does not add up. Sorry.

 

[TrueOrange]

How so? Because it helps your side of the debate? Let see:

Super bowl (32 Teams) - BCS National Title (Many more than 32 Teams)
AFC Championship (16 teams) - SEC Championship (16 Teams)
AFC South Division (4 Teams) - SEC East Division (6 Teams)


Explain again why the first level of NFL titles is equivalent to the second level of college football within the SEC?



I would argue that it's tougher to win a conference title in the SEC at the collegiate level than the conference title at the NFL level beings you can easily win a conference title in the NFL with 4 to 6 losses. Chances of winning a SEC title with 2 losses are slim and almost impossible with more than 2 losses.

That's actually more towards the proof towards how hard it is to win in the NFL, because no team you field can just blitzkreig through a season unscathed, like you can in college just because you're UF and everyone else isn't anywhere near your talent levels player wise.

There are going to be losses - and several of them - due to facts that both 1) these teams are all made up of professionals, the best of the best, and (2) it's the peak of the sport of football regarding to all areas.

I'd argue more that the fact that so many teams can go undefeated in college each year shows how much easier a league it is; there can be such talent gaps between the schools and their teams that some can regularly just muscle their way through their schedule year in and out on, sometimes based on a larger athletic budget or program size alone.

edit: see the difference between USC and the Pac-10 for so much of this decade; or how often it was just OU and Texas in the Big 12 this decade up until the last few years....even UT and UF in the 90s as well

 

[TrueOrange]

I agree with you on that. If you get into the superbowl, it is equivalent to getting into the BCS National title game since both games are the top 2 teams for their respective level of play.

Here's where we differ. Getting into the SEC Championship game is equivalent to getting into the AFC conference championship game in my opinion. You seem to disagree and say a college team needs to get into the BCS title game in order to be equivalent to maiking it into the AFC conference championship game.

Your logic does not add up. Sorry.

and yours does how? because they share the same name in the title?

the AFC and NFC "championships" are titles to say "you got through the playoffs to secure one of the NFL bids to the championship game; you're one of the two teams playing for the league championship in the Super Bowl"

To win the AFC or NFC championship, you have to get a spot in the league championship game. To win the SEC championship, you don't have to be anywhere near that good.

How can one title - where the team has to reach the professional "national" championship, if you will, - be the same as one that has no such tie in at all? There's a huge difference between something that you have to be 1 of the 2 best teams overall to win versus something where you can be just as easily near 20th in the league to win....which is where your argument isn't making any sense

 

[BJSforVols]

That's actually more towards the proof towards how hard it is to win in the NFL, because no team you field can just blitzkreig through a season unscathed, like you can in college just because you're UF and everyone else isn't anywhere near your talent levels player wise.

There are going to be losses - and several of them - due to facts that both 1) these teams are all made up of professionals, the best of the best, and (2) it's the peak of the sport of football regarding to all areas.

I'd argue more that the fact that so many teams can go undefeated in college each year shows how much easier a league it is; there can be such talent gaps between the schools and their teams that some can regularly just muscle their way through their schedule year in and out on, sometimes based on a larger athletic budget or program size alone.

It sounds as if you are a fan of the NFL more so than college football. I will admit that I prefer college over pro. It doesn't mean we don't like both. Fortunately, we can be a fan of both beings they occur on different days for the most part.

I respect your opinion but disagree with it. I suggest we agree to disagree, because you will not convince me it's tougher to win a championship in the NFL than it is in college nor does it sound like I will convince you the opposite.

Back to the original discussion. I feel like it's time to get someone else coaching the Titans other than Fisher. I don't think Young is the definate answer, but I think he still deserves some time to determine if he is the answer. I agree that Fisher would be hired quickly, but I would be very surprised if he ever won a Superbowl with any team including the big markets such as Dallas.

The Titans may take a step backwards with another coach, just as the Vols took this risk when they fired Fulmer. As a fan of the Titans, I'm ready for them to take that risk, because I don't see us taking the step foward we have to take in order to make it to the Superbowl with Fisher at the helm.

 

[Cartervol]

I say we fire them all. Fisher for being mediocre, Vince for being a baby and Bud for being a lousy owner.

 

[BJSforVols]

and yours does how? because they share the same name in the title?

the AFC and NFC "championships" are titles to say "you got through the playoffs to secure one of the NFL bids to the championship game; you're one of the two teams playing for the league championship in the Super Bowl"

To win the AFC or NFC championship, you have to get a spot in the league championship game. To win the SEC championship, you don't have to be anywhere near that good.

How can one title - where the team has to reach the professional "national" championship, if you will, - be the same as one that has no such tie in at all? There's a huge difference between something that you have to be 1 of the 2 best teams overall to win versus something where you can be just as easily near 20th in the league to win....which is where your argument isn't making any sense

The natural arguement would be the teams who win the AFC/NFC championships are not necessarily the best teams in their conference that season. They are just the hottest teams at the end of the season. The Giants who beat the Patriots during their undefeated season are a prime example.

I honestly can not remember a SEC champion since the title game was created who has been ranked #20 or lower. Most years, the SEC champion is guaranteed a spot in the BCS title game. This season is the same provided Auburn does not lose. If Auburn was put in the "NFL" mode, they could shut it down now to rest their starters for the playoffs. In the college game, every game is important.

 

[BJSforVols]

I say we fire them all. Fisher for being mediocre, Vince for being a baby and Bud for being a lousy owner.

You may very well get your wish. Bud may fire Fisher. VY may fire himself, and mother nature will fire Bud before too long.

 

[timmy]

I'm still lol'ing @ all of the love for a coach that hasn't won a playoff game since 2003.

 

[TrueOrange]

I'm not sure 9 years qualifies as "most". I respect the recent trend with the conference, but winning the SEC championship is by no means a national title berth on its own, not without effect or help from other factors around the college football league season.

and LSU in 2001 was ranked 20th.

 

[Cartervol]

You may very well get your wish. Bud may fire Fisher. VY may fire himself, and mother nature will fire Bud before too long.

Never sweep the dirt under the rug, get the dust pan out and get all of it up:crazy:

Seriously though, i can deal with Fisher, his conservative nature gets to me at times.

VY and Adams could just go away and i wouldn't care one bit.

 

[TrueOrange]

I'm really starting to wonder if the franchise's history on ineptitude up until the last 10 years should perhaps be associated with the actions of its owner.

 

[Cartervol]

I'm really starting to wonder if the franchise's history on ineptitude up until the last 10 years should perhaps be associated with the actions of its owner.

Yeah i'd say Bud had a little something to do with that. McNair was a good QB in his prime. Young maybe could be but his head just isn't right. He doesn't seem to want to put in the work necessary or be a strong leader. You have to do both to be successful at this level.

 

[TrueOrange]

Yeah i'd say Bud had a little something to do with that. McNair was a good QB in his prime. Young maybe could be but his head just isn't right. He doesn't seem to want to put in the work necessary or be a strong leader. You have to do both to be successful at this level.

don't forget he also purged the Oiler's whole roster after the team lost in the playoffs in 92.....which I believe he said, at the beginning of that season, that he would do that if they didn't win the Super Bowl

 

[BJSforVols]

I'm not sure 9 years qualifies as "most". I respect the recent trend with the conference, but winning the SEC championship is by no means a national title berth on its own, not without effect or help from other factors around the college football league season.

and LSU in 2001 was ranked 20th.

Well, there have only been 12 SEC title games, so I would classify 9 of 12 as most. Maybe 75% is not most in your eyes, but it is in my eyes.

And yes, LSU would be an example of the Giants winning the NFC conference when they were not expected to win it. The difference is the college system prevented LSU from winning the National Championship due to an expected team not doing as expected.

 

[BJSforVols]

I'm really starting to wonder if the franchise's history on ineptitude up until the last 10 years should perhaps be associated with the actions of its owner.

The only flaw in this is Fisher has even indicated Bud has stayed out of it up until Vince was drafted. I think Bud is starting to force his voice more due to two things: #1 his wife passing away which gave him a bunch of time in which he needed to do something, and #2 he's getting on a power trip of their way isn't working so I'll show them my way.

 

[TrueOrange]

Well, there have only been 12 SEC title games, so I would classify 9 of 12 as most. Maybe 75% is not most in your eyes, but it is in my eyes.

And yes, LSU would be an example of the Giants winning the NFC conference when they were not expected to win it. The difference is the college system prevented LSU from winning the National Championship due to an expected team not doing as expected.

18, not 12. The first SEC championship game was in 1992

 

[TrueOrange]

The only flaw in this is Fisher has even indicated Bud has stayed out of it up until Vince was drafted. I think Bud is starting to force his voice more due to two things: #1 his wife passing away which gave him a bunch of time in which he needed to do something, and #2 he's getting on a power trip of their way isn't working so I'll show them my way.

the last he did #2 he cut all the starters from his team