War in Ukraine

#2,501
#2,501
MontyPython said:
In 1962, Russia placed nuclear missiles in Cuba. JFK threatened to invade Cuba if they weren't removed.

Was JFK "defending" the United States by threatening to attack Cuba?
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Is NATO placing nuclear ballistic missiles in the Ukraine?

Surely you can see the difference.
 
#2,502
#2,502
Rasputin_Vol said:
That isn't tinfoil hat. That is a proper understanding of their long term strategy. Answer me this, when the USSR collapsed in the 1990s and was far weaker than any point since 1917, why wasn't NATO disbanded then? What was the purpose of NATO at that point? And why expand eastward in the 1990s even as Russia was being driven in the ground by Yeltsin and robbed and pillaged by Western interests and their Russian oligarch collaborators?
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It wasn't in preparation for an invasion.
 
#2,503
#2,503
Rasputin_Vol said:
That isn't tinfoil hat. That is a proper understanding of their long term strategy. Answer me this, when the USSR collapsed in the 1990s and was far weaker than any point since 1917, why wasn't NATO disbanded then? What was the purpose of NATO at that point? And why expand eastward in the 1990s even as Russia was being driven in the ground by Yeltsin and robbed and pillaged by Western interests and their Russian oligarch collaborators?
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Lol at whining about NATO while the actions of the Russian dictator clearly demonstrate its appeal.
 
#2,504
#2,504
MontyPython said:
In 1962, Russia placed nuclear missiles in Cuba. JFK threatened to invade Cuba if they weren't removed.

Was JFK "defending" the United States by threatening to attack Cuba?
Click to expand...
Let us also not forget that once again, the missiles in Cuba were a reaction to missiles being placed in Turkey by NATO. But they would have you believe that the Cuban Missile Crisis was an unprovoked move by the USSR.
 
#2,506
#2,506
Rasputin_Vol said:
Let us also not forget that once again, the missiles in Cuba were a reaction to missiles being placed in Turkey by NATO. But they would have you believe that the Cuban Missile Crisis was an unprovoked move by the USSR.
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Hey, this is actually fair. You’re batting about .087.
 
#2,507
#2,507
Rasputin_Vol said:
Let us also not forget that once again, the missiles in Cuba were a reaction to missiles being placed in Turkey by NATO. But they would have you believe that the Cuban Missile Crisis was an unprovoked move by the USSR.
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No, it wasn't an unprovoked action. JFK made one of his many FP errors putting missiles in Turkey and got his hand slapped, without our press covering for him he would have been portrayed as the fool he was.
 
#2,508
#2,508
Sandman 423 said:
That shouldn't prevent the Ukraine from being able to defend itself.
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I haven't said anything against that idea.

Sandman 423 said:
Again..... WE SHOULD STAY OUT OF OTHER COUNTRIES AFFAIRS.
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Yet we can't. That is the problem. The United States is inserting itself in an Eastern European chess game that really should be handled by Europeans. And NATO, at this point, should be disbanded to remove us from any Article 5 responsibilities.
 
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#2,512
#2,512
Sandman 423 said:
Is NATO placing nuclear ballistic missiles in the Ukraine?

Surely you can see the difference.
Click to expand...
What would stop them from doing so if they admitted Ukraine? Lets stop pretending you don't see the concerns that Russia has. Turkey, Ukraine, The Baltics, and Poland would surround the western heartland of Russia.
 
#2,513
#2,513
Sandman 423 said:
Is NATO placing nuclear ballistic missiles in the Ukraine?

Surely you can see the difference.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying. But, my understanding is that NATO 'defensive' ballistic missile systems can be quickly converted and fitted with cruise missiles which are offensive.

Bottom line to me is I understand Russia's concern of infringement by NATO, and I hope we work to address those concerns and keep the peace. After all, the cold war is over. We won. Nothing Putin can do will change that... unless he starts a hot war.
 
#2,514
#2,514
hog88 said:
If Ukraine and it's citizens or any other European country wants to join NATO and qualifies they shouldn't be barred from doing so by some US/Russian agreement. I'd like to see most all of Europe band together in a military alliance and leave us out of it.
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I agree
 
#2,516
#2,516
tvolsfan said:
Lol at whining about NATO while the actions of the Russian dictator clearly demonstrate its appeal.
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What exactly is NATO doing other than relying on the US as usual? France and Germany don't seem to be too interested in NATO's allegiances at the moment, they seem to be looking out for their own interests
 
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#2,517
#2,517
Rasputin_Vol said:
What would stop them from doing so if they admitted Ukraine? Lets stop pretending you don't see the concerns that Russia has. Turkey, Ukraine, The Baltics, and Poland would surround the western heartland of Russia.
Click to expand...

Turkey is useless in NATO but so are most of the other NATO nations so they fit right in
 
#2,518
#2,518
MontyPython said:
I get what you're saying. But, my understanding is that NATO 'defensive' ballistic missile systems can be quickly converted and fitted with cruise missiles which are offensive.

Bottom line to me is I understand Russia's concern of infringement by NATO, and I hope we work to address those concerns and keep the peace. After all, the cold war is over. We won. Nothing Putin can do will change that... unless he starts a hot war.
Click to expand...

CDVvESoUIAAcevO
 
#2,519
#2,519
MontyPython said:
I get what you're saying. But, my understanding is that NATO 'defensive' ballistic missile systems can be quickly converted and fitted with cruise missiles which are offensive.

Bottom line to me is I understand Russia's concern of infringement by NATO, and I hope we work to address those concerns and keep the peace. After all, the cold war is over. We won. Nothing Putin can do will change that... unless he starts a hot war.
Click to expand...
No
 
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#2,520
#2,520
Russia Lashes Out After UK Talks: "Like A Mute Talking To A Deaf Person" | ZeroHedge

"I'm honestly disappointed that what we have is a conversation between a dumb and a deaf person...Our most detailed explanations fell on unprepared soil," Lavrov told a joint news conference with Britain's Liz Truss.

"They say Russia is waiting until the ground freezes like a stone so its tanks can easily cross into Ukrainian territory. I think the ground was like that today with our British colleagues, from which numerous facts that we produced bounced off," he continued in usually accusatory language.
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#2,521
#2,521
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#2,522
#2,522
MontyPython said:
I may not be correct on whether it's cruise missiles, but that's my recollection.

Regardless, apparently one of our tests with the 'defensive' system awhile back spooked the Russians into thinking it can be used offensively. FWIW, I think they're right. Course us Americans would never lie about our weapon capabilities...

Russia Says U.S. Missile Defense Test Proves It Lied About Global Missile Shield
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For one thing these ballistic Sams are ballistic not cruise. Two opposed differences of design
Another they are typically depending on variant HTK warheads and not explosive. The warhead on a Sam would weigh in the tens of pounds
 
#2,523
#2,523
Orangeburst said:
For one thing these ballistic Sams are ballistic not cruise. Two opposed differences of design
Another they are typically depending on variant HTK warheads and not explosive. The warhead on a Sam would weigh in the tens of pounds
Click to expand...
And that may all very well be true... right now. I will be willing to concede that point.

But again I ask, what would stop them from moving in offensive ballistic missiles in the future... particularly in Ukraine, The Baltics or Poland? That is the very source of the concern.
 
#2,524
#2,524
Rasputin_Vol said:
And that may all very well be true... right now. I will be willing to concede that point.

But again I ask, what would stop them from moving in offensive ballistic missiles in the future... particularly in Ukraine, The Baltics or Poland? That is the very source of the concern.
Click to expand...
They invade Ukraine the Old Warsaw Pact just may. And who could blame them
just another ante
 
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