War in Ukraine

#2,526
#2,526
Rasputin_Vol said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree, but there are plenty of sources that will show you that they ultimate goal has been to weaken or break up Russia after some sort of conflict.
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It was to eventually bring European Russia onto the team, to bring them under the West's influence just like how Eastern Europe came under the West's influence after the Cold War. I don't think a conflict, especially an armed conflict, was a goal of NATO expansion.

Putin himself was open to this option until about 2003/04, until the Baltics plus others entered NATO. He ultimately decided he wanted to run his own show than be a player in someone else's.
 
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#2,527
#2,527
Orangeburst said:
They invade Ukraine the Old Warsaw Pact just may. And who could blame them
just another ante
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The hatred between Ukraine and Russia goes back centuries. No amount of US soldiers dying to defend it are going to change that and the only thing that is going to happen is we are going to get sucked into another Afghanistan with complicated factions, no exit strategy, and not path to victory, on top of having to fight against another major World power.
 
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#2,528
#2,528
Burhead said:


60% of Russia combat power is deployed to the border, 60%, this is a huge and expensive bluff if he doesn't do something.
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Meh. Expensive? Gotta pay these guys no matter where they are right?

I think this all a bluff... maybe. Heh.
 
#2,529
#2,529
MontyPython said:
Meh. Expensive? Gotta pay these guys no matter where they are right?

I think this all a bluff... maybe. Heh.
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If Russia wants to get bogged down in another endless war like the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan, why stop them, few countries were lining up to stop us from going down that path. They don't have nearly the economic output that we do. It will bankrupt them
 
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#2,531
#2,531
landscapingvol said:
If Russia wants to get bogged down in another endless war like the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan, why stop them, few countries were lining up to stop us from going down that path. They don't have nearly the economic output that we do. It will bankrupt them
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That's a fair approach. USSR experienced the same in Afghanville.
 
#2,532
#2,532
landscapingvol said:
If Russia wants to get bogged down in another endless war like the US did in Iraq and Afghanistan, why stop them, few countries were lining up to stop us from going down that path. They don't have nearly the economic output that we do. It will bankrupt them
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Yep. I can't see the post-invasion phase of that conflict going well for Russia. They'd get bogged down, take a lot of casualties, burn through the foreign exchange reserves they've built up over the last 5-6 years, and would likely define the rest of Putin's presidency.
 
#2,534
#2,534
hog88 said:
Putin is much smarter than either one of them. Maybe more ruthless too.
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Putin has made a lot more money than they did and I suspect he doesn't want to part with it. Total war with another World power isn't a great political calculation and he isn't the only individual in the Russian government who is ruthless. I would be willing to bet that Nicholas the second never thought his family would be shot in the cellar of a house three years after WW1 started.
 
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#2,540
#2,540
Rasputin_Vol said:
And that may all very well be true... right now. I will be willing to concede that point.

But again I ask, what would stop them from moving in offensive ballistic missiles in the future... particularly in Ukraine, The Baltics or Poland? That is the very source of the concern.
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What kind of actions would most likely lead to NATO electing to do this....... Military actions like the we are from Russia currently?

Russia is playing a game here, they are being provocative and when the question is asked why? The answer is inevitably something along the lines of what stops NATO from doing x or y, we are defending ourselves from some yet to be materialize threat....... Russia is the threat here.
 
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#2,546
#2,546
If one pays attention to military stuff..the Pentagon sure has been letting out little snippets of tech stuff lately..The sixth B-21 is under construction and for such a program they sure would not well us things without sending messages.
 
#2,547
#2,547
Orangeburst said:
More thinking and thought provoking by this person anything our nation offers..

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All Putin and Xi needed to see was Biden F up the Afghan exodus and that was their green light. They know they’re dealing with an Administration that is completely incompetent with no appetite to deal with this.
 
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#2,548
#2,548
Vol737 said:
All Putin and Xi needed to see was Biden F up the Afghan exodus and that was their green light. They know they’re dealing with an Administration that is completely incompetent with no appetite to deal with this.
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Heck...we cannot afford any more war...The Russians know it and especially the CCP. They hold off a little longer it will be easier.
 
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#2,549
#2,549
05_never_again said:
It was to eventually bring European Russia onto the team, to bring them under the West's influence just like how Eastern Europe came under the West's influence after the Cold War. I don't think a conflict, especially an armed conflict, was a goal of NATO expansion.
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That is a clever choice of words. You say "influence" and I would say "control". Essentially, we are saying the same thing, because had Putin not stepped into the picture, Russia would have been so devastated that they would have fallen under Western "influence".

But now that Putin has stopped the hemorrhaging from the Yeltsin era, the West will have to go to Plan B, which is the war card.
 
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#2,550
#2,550
Which administration since the Cold War era would we want in charge right now?

Believe Russia and China aren’t worried about the current administration one bit.
 
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