War in Ukraine

#2,551
#2,551
Rasputin_Vol said:
That is a clever choice of words. You say "influence" and I would say "control". Essentially, we are saying the same thing, because had Putin not stepped into the picture, Russia would have been so devastated that they would have fallen under Western "influence".

But now that Putin has stopped the hemorrhaging from the Yeltsin era, the West will have to go to Plan B, which is the war card.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t consider influence and control to be the same thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyvol77
#2,555
#2,555
Orangeburst said:
Heck...we cannot afford any more war...The Russians know it and especially the CCP. They hold off a little longer it will be easier.
Click to expand...

Which could also mean this is a bigger land grab than just eastern Ukraine and Taiwan. If they think the US response will just be a lot of proclamations, idle threats and teeth gnashing, then why not? As several in this thread have stated, you don’t amass this type of force and fire power at great expense if it’s just a bluff.
 
#2,556
#2,556
hog88 said:
If Ukraine and it's citizens or any other European country wants to join NATO and qualifies they shouldn't be barred from doing so by some US/Russian agreement. I'd like to see most all of Europe band together in a military alliance and leave us out of it.
Click to expand...

Best response in the thread. Would have lead to a totally different geopolitical dynamic.
 
#2,557
#2,557
Rasputin_Vol said:
And again, they annexed Crimea after the US State Department initiated a coup and destabilized Ukraine in 2014. You act as though Crimea was annexed in a vacuum and conveniently ignore the US staged Kiev coup. It was a reactive move, not a proactive move.
Click to expand...

Honest question. Do you believe Russian intelligence had no hand in the Ukraine power structure prior to 2014?
 
#2,564
#2,564
PKT_VOL said:
Thank you. Let's drop the faux outrage.
Click to expand...
So, does that mean that we are not going to acknowledge the part that the West has played in all of this going back to 2013?

Or are you saying it is a one way street... that The West hasn't been involved in Ukraine?
 
#2,566
#2,566
PKT_VOL said:
Best response in the thread. Would have lead to a totally different geopolitical dynamic.
Click to expand...

Yes, let's ignore this conflict. History proves we'd NEVER get drawn into an even bigger conflict. Perhaps we send the Ukrainians 100,000 shovels to help with their gravedigging.

giphy (12).gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rasputin_Vol
#2,567
#2,567
History and time and place and space have been developing for........many many centuries.....we are in the moment and lose perspective of yester-years, the present day, and are mostly oblivious to tomorrow.

Fighting and not figuring out how to get along will always be here, and, no matter the reason, "Man" will continue to figure out what "surviving" entails.

The endless reasoning for this survival is meaningless, until true struggle for one's right to live and breathe, or die for said rights, smacks one in the face......

There are no easy answers as there will always be conflict. Life is hard on this planet, and has been since "Man" has been around to witness and record it as history.

We always should try to remember how important it is to be together, and not against one another......kumbaya and all that.....

Even then, some one else gonna come along and try to steal your stuff, so, this is life.........humans gonna... human....
 
#2,570
#2,570
Looks to be a long year coming, maybe it is, or it won't be the beginning of the end......

I mean, as a life long Bengals fan, is hell freezing over......????? When they win it......is "it" over LOL? Crazy times indeed.....
 
#2,571
#2,571
MontyPython said:
Yes, let's ignore this conflict. History proves we'd NEVER get drawn into an even bigger conflict. Perhaps we send the Ukrainians 100,000 shovels to help with their gravedigging.

View attachment 433545
Click to expand...

History has also proven that most wars are pointless and solve nothing, it's easy to send other men to their deaths if when politicians aren't the ones fighting them. Have we not learned anything from Afghanistan? We cannot get involved in sectarian violence and have any form of success in the long term. Ukraine is a complex nation full of plenty of pro Russian factions and anti Russian factions, they are more than capable of defending themselves. This isn't Russia invading Ethiopia against an enemy that can't defend itself. We cannot afford as a nation to get bogged down in an endless war wasting trillions of dollars with no end game. We are going to solve the friction between Russia and Ukraine. It has existed for centuries. It won't end no matter the outcome of the present escalation. Russia isn't going to steamroll Eastern Europe, that is pure lunacy created by the war hawks to distract from the issues at home. This is a Europe problem that needs to solved with European solutions, not a US problem. WW1 was a century ago and WW2 was 70 years ago, the French and Italians, along with the Germans need to step and drop the excuses of the destruction they suffered during those wars as a reason for the US's needed role militarily. They can sit idly on the side and watch much of Ukraine fall to the Russians or they can get involved outside of a few speeches and summits. Maybe they will be forced into actually doing something or not, either way it should be clear that we cannot fight every issue that pops up in Eastern Europe for them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rasputin_Vol
#2,572
#2,572
Rasputin_Vol said:
No, they are not the same thing. That is precisely why I stated you chose clever phrasing.
Click to expand...
What you call "clever phrasing" (simply because you disagree with me) I would call precise language. We aren't saying the same thing, even though you said we were. I disagree that Russia would have been devastated had Putin not stepped into the picture. This trope you run around here that Putin does things for the good of his people/country is just as laughable as claiming that Biden or any US President does things for the good of his country.

I think NATO/the West generally seeks to influence Russia just like they influence Eastern Europe. I don't think anybody would say (well, except maybe you) that NATO outright controls Eastern Europe.
 
#2,573
#2,573
05_never_again said:
What you call "clever phrasing" (simply because you disagree with me) I would call precise language. We aren't saying the same thing, even though you said we were. I disagree that Russia would have been devastated had Putin not stepped into the picture. This trope you run around here that Putin does things for the good of his people/country is just as laughable as claiming that Biden or any US President does things for the good of his country.

I think NATO/the West generally seeks to influence Russia just like they influence Eastern Europe. I don't think anybody would say (well, except maybe you) that NATO outright controls Eastern Europe.
Click to expand...

No one controls Eastern Europe and that is a problem when tensions arise with Russia, some former Soviet bloc nations aren't anti Russian on the contrary many are pro Russian and it makes it extremely difficult to push back in the face of Russian aggression. It is precisely why nations like Germany and France should be playing a central role to unite Europe against Russia. They aren't and it makes what few nations who are willing and able to fight back hesitant to stand up against Russia
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rasputin_Vol
#2,574
#2,574
landscapingvol said:
No one controls Eastern Europe and that is a problem when tensions arise with Russia, some former Soviet bloc nations aren't anti Russian on the contrary many are pro Russian and it makes it extremely difficult to push back in the face of Russian aggression. It is precisely why nations like Germany and France should be playing a central role to unite Europe against Russia. They aren't and it makes what few nations who are willing and able to fight back hesitant to stand up against Russia
Click to expand...
Most of them are very much anti-Russian, especially the Baltics and Poland. In fact, those nations don't have to be controlled or influenced whatsoever to make them anti-Russian.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top