War in Ukraine

#3,251
#3,251
volinbham said:
case in point - Biden just said he predicts an invasion will happen in the next couple days and has no plans to call Putin. Seems if you believe it's happening you'd be in an all out diplomacy initiative
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Diplomacy? Like what... calling Putin and telling him we won't meet his demands... again.
 
#3,252
#3,252
volinbham said:
case in point - Biden just said he predicts an invasion will happen in the next couple days and has no plans to call Putin. Seems if you believe it's happening you'd be in an all out diplomacy initiative
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They are not about diplomacy. They want this war.
 
#3,262
#3,262
volfanhill said:
They don't need the ramifications that will come with this war. And the average voter won't accept their life getting harder bc of this war.
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I don't think they want war but I also think they aren't willing to sacrifice domestic policy initiatives that both strengthened Putin's hand and subsequently could severely hurt him (namely energy policy). IOW, war between Russia and Ukraine is a preferable alternative to policy changes - Ukraine is expendable. IMHO
 
#3,267
#3,267
Let me backtrack just a bit. I don't think they would mind war, but I think their original objective in all of this was to play a game of chicken with Putin and hope that he blinks first and retreats. Second best option would be to apply enough pressure and possibly throw in a false flag to help provoke Putin into acting. Then that gives them the justification they need to do whatever they want.
 
#3,269
#3,269
I don't doubt people like Ron Klain are sussing out whether a Russia invasion is a net positive or negative for Biden's approval ratings. And sadly if the calculus says net positive then Ukraine is screwed.
 
#3,271
#3,271
Rasputin_Vol said:
Let me backtrack just a bit. I don't think they would mind war, but I think their original objective in all of this was to play a game of chicken with Putin and hope that he blinks first and retreats. Second best option would be to apply enough pressure and possibly throw in a false flag to help provoke Putin into acting. Then that gives them the justification they need to do whatever they want.
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Aren't both sides playing chicken? You only talk about the potential of Western forces pulling off a false flag. Russia does that same thing, and has already used "genocide of ethnic Russians" as a pretext for sending little green men into eastern Ukraine. I have a feeling you'd have a huge problem with Western forces entering Kiev to prevent a claimed "genocide" or something similar.
 
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#3,272
#3,272
volinbham said:
I don't think they want war but I also think they aren't willing to sacrifice domestic policy initiatives that both strengthened Putin's hand and subsequently could severely hurt him (namely energy policy). IOW, war between Russia and Ukraine is a preferable alternative to policy changes - Ukraine is expendable. IMHO
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What generation has ever "needed" war or wanted the sacrifices that come with it but that hasn't stopped many governments, including the US, from engaging in them. World War 2 was waged after the bloodiest war in World history and on the heels of the Great Depression, I can't think of a more inopportune time to start a major World war. The US invaded Iraq when the military was already stretched thin in Afghanistan
 
#3,274
#3,274
Burhead said:
Russia still wants NATO to return to its 1997 borders and basically leave central and eastern Europe. Further expansion of NATO is one thing that could be discussed but even the strongest supporters of Putin and anti-NATO folks should be able to agree that is a crazy demand. They also expelled an American diplomat this burning and smoke was seen at the Russian embassy in Kyiv. The pace of things has picked up again from the Russian side.
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We promised not to expand NATO at the end of the Cold War...never had intention not to. Remember what happened to the American Indian?

Russia has grown up. It’s not the little kid we pushed around after the Cold War. Sooner or later all of these European countries used to tighten the noose around Russia are going to realize they’ve been...used. Going back to the 1997 borders is unrealistic. What are we going to do if Russia invades Ukraine? Absolutely nothing...
 
#3,275
#3,275
MontyPython said:
Please dude. The Trump administration agreed to the withdrawal date of May 1, 2021 from Afghanistan while Trump was still in office.

But, sure, blame Biden. :rolleyes:
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Might want to go check when the withdrawl actually happened. Because it wasnt May 1st. It was actually even later than that, so yeah it falls on Biden.
 
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