War in Ukraine

#38,326
#38,326
KB5252 said:
Because it's better to go down with some kind of a fight rather than lay down and present your rear end for rape.

Doing something is better than doing nothing. Standing for some principle is better than bailing on allies. If we do the latter we will have no allies left.
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So you support just symbolic gestures rather than substantive and meaningful solutions. That line of thinking is no different than these clowns that tell us to wear masks when they know that they don't work... but it shows that we are at least doing something.

The West is allowing Ukraine to fight and die in a proxy war that they don't want to fight. You guys are no different than the politicians that are sending Ukraine these weapons in an effort to drag this out as long as possible to bleed Russia of blood and treasure.
 
#38,327
#38,327
Rasputin_Vol said:
So you support just symbolic gestures rather than substantive and meaningful solutions. That line of thinking is no different than these clowns that tell us to wear masks when they know that they don't work... but it shows that we are at least doing something.

The West is allowing Ukraine to fight and die in a proxy war that they don't want to fight. You guys are no different than the politicians that are sending Ukraine these weapons in an effort to drag this out as long as possible to bleed Russia of blood and treasure.
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Ukraine wants to fight it you dolt. They don't want to be subjects to your man crush.
 
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#38,328
#38,328
Rasputin_Vol said:
So you support just symbolic gestures rather than substantive and meaningful solutions. That line of thinking is no different than these clowns that tell us to wear masks when they know that they don't work... but it shows that we are at least doing something.

The West is allowing Ukraine to fight and die in a proxy war that they don't want to fight. You guys are no different than the politicians that are sending Ukraine these weapons in an effort to drag this out as long as possible to bleed Russia of blood and treasure.
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How do you allow someone to do something they don't want to do? You either allow them to do something they want to do or force them to do something they don't want to do.
Ukraine wants to fight. They could have sued for peace at any time but have not.
 
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#38,329
#38,329
EasternVol said:
How do you allow someone to do something they don't want to do? You either allow them to do something they want to do or force them to do something they don't want to do.
Ukraine wants to fight. They could have sued for peace at any time but have not.
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Britain and the US won't allow them to sue for peace.
 
#38,330
#38,330
Rasputin_Vol said:
Britain and the US won't allow them to sue for peace.
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fetchimage
 
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#38,332
#38,332
Rasputin_Vol said:
So you support just symbolic gestures rather than substantive and meaningful solutions. That line of thinking is no different than these clowns that tell us to wear masks when they know that they don't work... but it shows that we are at least doing something.

The West is allowing Ukraine to fight and die in a proxy war that they don't want to fight. You guys are no different than the politicians that are sending Ukraine these weapons in an effort to drag this out as long as possible to bleed Russia of blood and treasure.
Click to expand...

I have a substantive solution. Give the Ukrainians all the conventional weaponry they want and lets bleed the Russians dry.
 
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#38,334
#38,334
Rasputin_Vol said:
So you support just symbolic gestures rather than substantive and meaningful solutions. That line of thinking is no different than these clowns that tell us to wear masks when they know that they don't work... but it shows that we are at least doing something.

The West is allowing Ukraine to fight and die in a proxy war that they don't want to fight. You guys are no different than the politicians that are sending Ukraine these weapons in an effort to drag this out as long as possible to bleed Russia of blood and treasure.
Click to expand...
How would we "allow" someone who doesn't want to fight? I think deep down you know they don't want to but are forced to for independence.

Stupid finding fathers, they should have just laid back and let the English break it off in them.

It's never a meaningless gesture to an ally when you do what you can to keep your word. It's how you keep allies. Break your word and crap on relationships and you become irrelevant.

Ukraine is fighting because they want to, and giving Russia all kinds of hell because they are determined. It doesn't look to me like a war they aren't willing to fight. It's because this war was forced on them by an INVADING army, not the west. The west is simply supplying the means.
 
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#38,342
#38,342
WBO said:
I have a substantive solution. Give the Ukrainians all the conventional weaponry they want and lets bleed the Russians dry.
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That isn't working, genius. The Ukrainians are going through weapons so quickly that they are bleeding NATO stockpiles and extending this war is only crushing Ukrainian soldiers' lives.

You people are nuts.
 
#38,343
#38,343
WBO said:
I have a substantive solution. Give the Ukrainians all the conventional weaponry they want and lets bleed the Russians dry.
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Also. your objective doesn't mention anything about Ukraine winning, just hoping to bleed Russia of blood and treasure. So again, just using the Ukrainians as fodder.
 
#38,345
#38,345
SIAP. 4 more HIMARS going to Ukraine.

That'll make 16 + 5 M270s = 21 total.

Thinking 50 is around the magic # needed for proper counterattack, per Ukrainian Secy of Def (his low end #). More importantly, unimpeded flow of beacoup missiles from US a must.
 
#38,346
#38,346
BreatheUT said:
I hope with the amount of money we are throwing at Ukraine that we are canceling or reducing programs domestically otherwise the dollar is screwed. We are just printing money.
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So much for your econ theory. Dollar up 11% since start of war. HUGE pop.

Screenshot_20220723-111919_Chrome.jpg
 
#38,347
#38,347
KB5252 said:
How would we "allow" someone who doesn't want to fight? I think deep down you know they don't want to but are forced to for independence.
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3elensky and the Western architects supporting them are having the Ukrainians stand and fight indefensible positions. The Azovstahl plant in Mariupol, the Azot plant in Sievierodonetsk and the town of Lysychansk as major examples. There were plenty of opportunities for these troops to have retreated from these areas, yet they were being instructed to hold these positions.

KB5252 said:
Stupid finding fathers, they should have just laid back and let the English break it off in them.
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The Founding Fathers were fighting a war of self-determination to liberate themselves from a corrupt regime. No different than the people of Donbas fighting a corrupt regime that overthrew a democratically elected president in 2014.

KB5252 said:
It's never a meaningless gesture to an ally when you do what you can to keep your word. It's how you keep allies. Break your word and crap on relationships and you become irrelevant.
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Well first off, since when do we have a military alliance with Ukraine? Are they in NATO. Secondly, you mention the Founding Fathers to try to make a point, yet in this instance, you know good and well that they were not for entangling alliances and an expansive military. This is a European issue. Let the Europeans handle this.

And lastly, seems like this is nothing more than saving face in front of allies. Well, you talked about keeping our word with an "ally". With the way things are going right now in Ukraine, WTF do you think Taiwan is thinking right now?

KB5252 said:
Ukraine is fighting because they want to, and giving Russia all kinds of hell because they are determined. It doesn't look to me like a war they aren't willing to fight. It's because this war was forced on them by an INVADING army, not the west. The west is simply supplying the means.
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But are they winning? Are they winning. Are they winning? You people clearly show you don't care about them winning, you just hope that the Russians find themselves in a quagmire... similar to the quagmires that we have found ourselves in Vietnam and Afghanistan.
 
#38,348
#38,348
EasternVol said:
I see. We force them to fight a war. That is a reach, don't you think?
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No, it is not a reach. The weapons and assistance that we have flooded them with has prolonged this conflict and only emboldened them. They are still delsional enough to believe that The West is going to jump in and save them. At some point, it will be too late for them to realize that they were being used and should have sued for peace back in March... or just had abided by the original Minsk ceasefire agreements.

EasternVol said:
When Russia started the invasion and Ukraine said they'd fight with all they had and begged for foreign aid, was that just in code?
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It was as just as the Donbas asking for Russian help after a democratically president was overthrown in 2014 and they were attacked for 8 years because they no longer wanted to be apart of the corrupt Kyiv regime.
 
#38,350
#38,350
MontyPython said:
So much for your econ theory. Dollar up 11% since start of war. HUGE pop.

View attachment 474723
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So you screen shot an indicator that measures the strength of the dollar against 6 European currencies of struggling economies?

How about being concerned about fiscal responsibility of our tax dollars?

Ok, give to Ukraine but cut domestic pork that we can't afford or is that "political" suicide?
 
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