War in Ukraine

[EasternVol]

...The weapons and assistance that we have flooded them with has prolonged this conflict and only emboldened them. They are still delsional enough to believe that The West is going to jump in and save them. ....

That sounds like they think they can win. So they're fighting of their own free will.
In your view, if they want to surrender, what prevents that?

 

[EasternVol]

I

Before that. Try the 1950s, which is why Eisenhower warned of the MIC in his farewell address.

Often we have, yes. LBJ with the VN War and Great Society comes to mind. But to his credit Clinton left the budget in decent shape. GWB started back the spend and just print more money foolishness, Obama doubled down on it, Trump rode it, and the stooge there now has taken it to a whole new level.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

That sounds like they think they can win. So they're fighting of their own free will.
In your view, if they want to surrender, what prevents that?

They think they can win because they believe that NATO is going to jump in and save them. And NATO has given them that impression.

I would say that right now, it is NATO that is being bled dry in this, not Russia. You are seeing major political upheaval in Western Europe, eroding economies, Ukrainian refugee crisis in a few countries and galloping inflation. The mood across Europe will sour quickly if the last few towns in Donetsk fall and it becomes clear that the Ukrainians are not heading to victory. So all of this weapons dumping and sanctioning was for what?

 

[EasternVol]

Before that. Try the 1950s, which is why Eisenhower warned of the MIC in his farewell address.

I need to listen or read it again but I think Ike was also warning about the MIC influencing government policy

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I

Often we have, yes. LBJ with the VN War and Great Society comes to mind. But to his credit Clinton left the budget in decent shape. GWB started back the spend and just print more money foolishness, Obama doubled down on it, Trump rode it, and the stooge there now has taken it to a whole new level.

Just stop. After 1994, Clinton had no choice because of the congressional midterms. Had Clinton had his way, he would have engaged in a bunch of budget busting social spending.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I need to listen or read it again but I think Ike was also warning about the MIC influencing government policy

Yes he did.

 

[EasternVol]

Just stop. After 1994, Clinton had no choice because of the congressional midterms. Had Clinton had his way, he would have engaged in a bunch of budget busting social spending.

Fair point. So let's say that the budget was in decent shape when Clinton left office. GWB cranked up the spend and print scheme and it hasn't stopped since.

 

[BreatheUT]

Just stop. After 1994, Clinton had no choice because of the congressional midterms. Had Clinton had his way, he would have engaged in a bunch of budget busting social spending.

Newt Gingrich was the brains behind the Clinton balanced budget.

 

[hog88]

Also. your objective doesn't mention anything about Ukraine winning, just hoping to bleed Russia of blood and treasure. So again, just using the Ukrainians as fodder.

Many wars have been won through attrition. Stack them Russian bodies like cord wood and the motherland will tire of it.

 

[hog88]

How about let the Europeans do the fighting alongside the Ukrainians? Shared sacrifice. Stop just using the Ukrainians as tools.

How about the Russians GTF home?

 

[Septic]

Muhahahahaha if true.

Israel gives no f**ks.

 

[hog88]

Before that. Try the 1950s, which is why Eisenhower warned of the MIC in his farewell address.

Ike was part of the MIC and big supporter of it.

 

[Septic]

That sounds like they think they can win. So they're fighting of their own free will.
In your view, if they want to surrender, what prevents that?

Ras is so out of pocket with this line of reasoning it's hard not to imagine he's not just trolling.

If not it's the most embarrassingly stupid argument this forum has seen in a long time.

 

[BreatheUT]

Many wars have been won through attrition. Stack them Russian bodies like cord wood and the motherland will tire of it.

At what cost to America? We might sustain financial wounds we don't recover from that catapults China. The European countries aren't breaking the bank because they can't. We can't either but are.

 

[hog88]

At what cost to America? We might sustain financial wounds we don't recover from. The European countries aren't breaking the bank because they can't. We can't either but are.

Hey, don’t get me wrong. I don’t think we should be giving anything, we should be selling to Western Europe and letting them give. It’s their ass on the line the further west Putin pushes, if they won’t dedicate their treasure to the fight, screw them.

 

[BreatheUT]

Hey, don’t get me wrong. I don’t think we should be giving anything, we should be selling to Western Europe and letting them give. It’s their ass on the line the further west Putin pushes, if they won’t dedicate their treasure to the fight, screw them.

Another strategic failure of this administration of no stones and incompetence all over the place.

 

[NorthDallas40]

How about let the Europeans do the fighting alongside the Ukrainians? Shared sacrifice. Stop just using the Ukrainians as tools.

How about you stop acting like you give a single **** about any Ukranian Moe

 

[NorthDallas40]

Many wars have been won through attrition. Stack them Russian bodies like cord wood and the motherland will tire of it.

They will mourn their losses as they drive around in their new POS white cars. That is until the supply of white POS cars dries up too.

 

[KB5252]

3elensky and the Western architects supporting them are having the Ukrainians stand and fight indefensible positions. The Azovstahl plant in Mariupol, the Azot plant in Sievierodonetsk and the town of Lysychansk as major examples. There were plenty of opportunities for these troops to have retreated from these areas, yet they were being instructed to hold these positions.

The Founding Fathers were fighting a war of self-determination to liberate themselves from a corrupt regime. No different than the people of Donbas fighting a corrupt regime that overthrew a democratically elected president in 2014.


Well first off, since when do we have a military alliance with Ukraine? Are they in NATO. Secondly, you mention the Founding Fathers to try to make a point, yet in this instance, you know good and well that they were not for entangling alliances and an expansive military. This is a European issue. Let the Europeans handle this.

And lastly, seems like this is nothing more than saving face in front of allies. Well, you talked about keeping our word with an "ally". With the way things are going right now in Ukraine, WTF do you think Taiwan is thinking right now?


But are they winning? Are they winning. Are they winning? You people clearly show you don't care about them winning, you just hope that the Russians find themselves in a quagmire... similar to the quagmires that we have found ourselves in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

You forget we made alliances with other European nations during our revolutionary war.

Ukraine wins if they fight. They lose everything if they roll over but this is exactly what you advocate for. Pretending you know what their best interest is better than they do. I don't care if Russia is humiliated or not. I simply don't care. But I do care if they invade other nations.

An unpopular Russian puppet was overthrown. It was the will of the people, had it not been they would have cozied back up to Russia when they had the next election. They did not. I'm sorry but Donbas didn't get to throw a hissy and take up arms without meeting force in return. Don't like it, there's the next election or they can go to Russia. There's always choices.

 

[KB5252]

Also. your objective doesn't mention anything about Ukraine winning, just hoping to bleed Russia of blood and treasure. So again, just using the Ukrainians as fodder.

No the Ukrainians fight because they want to. Ukraine can win this by breaking Russian resolve and bleeding them dry as you put it. Make it firstly enough for Russia and they quit. Ukraine was invaded, it's funny how you forge a nations resolve when you attack and kill their people.

It seems to me you want Ukrainians to concede because it's convenient to your narrative. But consider you may be wrong.

The US isn't begging Ukraine to take up arms, Ukraine is begging the west for arms, the means to defend themselves from an INVADING force. If you can't see that we can't have an honest discussion because the foundation of your stance isn't built on the reality of the situation.

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[Velo Vol]

Ukraine was invaded, it's funny how you forge a nations resolve when you attack and kill their people.

And commit genocide.

 

[WBO]

How about sell the weapons to The Europeans and let them give to Ukraine?

I would agree that the Europeans also should make substantial contributions to the Ukrainians.

Not into NATO bashing if that's your point.

 

[EasternVol]

Ike was part of the MIC and big supporter of it.

Good point. He and the Dulles boys stayed busy expanding it.

 

[MontyPython]

So you screen shot an indicator that measures the strength of the dollar against 6 European currencies of struggling economies?

How about being concerned about fiscal responsibility of our tax dollars?

Ok, give to Ukraine but cut domestic pork that we can't afford or is that "political" suicide?

LOL @ "fiscal responsibility". Babbling you are. Sense you make not.