War in Ukraine

[Velo Vol]

I am probably just as jaded about our state department and people like the Dulles brothers as you are. In fact, I think we'd be in a far better place if we just executed and buried diplomats world wide - all of them. However, the thing you fail to grasp is that our meddling has been generally reactive and Sino/Soviet meddling proactive - and ours has often been in response to Sino/Soviet meddling. You are generally throwing the flag on the guy who fought back and ignoring the instigator. Banana Republics and bananas have always been a problem - much of it caused by the greed, graft, and corruption of the Latin type European colonizers in the southern part of this hemisphere. You obviously weren't around for enough of the Cold War to gain historical perspective.

It's not like any of us are under the illusion that America doesn't have issues. It's that, on almost every aspect, Russia is even worse on that score. And people like @Rasputin_Vol are refusing to acknowledge this.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Russia is even worse on that score.

Most of the time when I speak with people about world events I find out 99% of them really haven't lived outside of the United States, if I were to guess most of the people talking about Russia... 99.99999% probably haven't even been within 500 miles of Russia.

Its not which is better, its just not our business. LoL

 

[LouderVol]

Russian life didn't become cheap until Stalin took power. You know good and damn well that the country had no problems growing under the tsars. 27 million lost through war and democide has a way of devastating a country even as large as Russia.

You clearly dont know the history of the tsars when comes to treatment of the people in their countryside. The Moscovites and Peterburgians? Sure they might have meant a little. But the Revolutions in the 1910s didnt happen over nothing.

Serfdom wasnt removed until Stalin. Conscription was pretty much the main military strategy outside of I think Peter trying to go professional with a small group.

Heck at one of their tsarist celebrations a bunch of people died.
Khodynka Tragedy - Wikipedia
If you have +1200 people dying in a celebration it's hard to argue those lives mean much of anything.

It's always hilarious when you complain that others dont know their history when you spout this stuff.

 

[LouderVol]

Not with tactical nukes. A tactical nuke could be deployed which is only say 50-100 times the size of a normal conventional weapon. Instead of taking out cities, you take out city blocks. However, its still best to use it on enemy territory, just like any other weapon.

Conventional bombs can take out city blocks already. And last time I checked Ukraine isnt Ghetto'd with Russian only blocks to be avoided in the nuking.

The tactical nukes will take out small cities, and likely leave more of it standing than the WW2 bombs. But you also have to remember that the nukes have gotten much more efficient. So it doesnt matter as much that they are smaller than they were. They are still indiscriminate killing weapons.

And it's still far more radiation than the human body should take. The "less" when it comes to tactical nukes is on the scale of tsar bombs not Big Boy.

 

[Burhead]

Russian troops in Kherson are in tough spot. This Ukrainian counter offensive is going to be studied for years to come.

 

[LouderVol]

Now if we did this, I could see the war ending in a few months.

Lol. We would be dumb to trust them or get that involved.

Which I am sure means we will do it.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Russian troops in Kherson are in tough spot. This Ukrainian counter offensive is going to be studied for years to come.

Oh I’d guess it’s easy for us to study it since we likely provided all of the Intel and up front ops planning.

 

[LouderVol]

Franz Ferdinand would seem to be a very important historical lesson for non entangling alliances. Yet the Globalist push the foot to the floor that if we create this Global alliance, war will disappear.
There is a physics and science lesson here just as we see with economic bubbles. Let the little ones occur or face the fate of the monstrosity of energy

Might want to look at the totals killed in war since NATO.

You total up every single little conflict we have been involved in and it doesnt even come close to our losses in WW1, yet alone WW2. Same with the amount of destruction of our opponents.

It didnt stop war, but it made it far smaller. As I continue to say Russia has enjoyed its longest ever period of no invasions in its history due to NATO.

I mean maybe you are an absolutist so it's a failure. But when you look at the scale of history these last 70 plus years have been relatively peaceful when before the trend was ever more violence.

 

[LouderVol]

That is what is mind boggling to me is that some supposed conservatives are now believing every single thing they hear regarding Ukraine. At this point I am really starting to question their conservatism and think they would just rather keep recycling the same old neocon and democrat politicians over and over in the U.S.

And I have yet to see you guys question even the most outrageous of RTs claims. Apparently Russia is the first nation ever to not have its state owned media lie for them....

If you actually called it equally you could claim neutrality.

 

[MontyPython]

Don't know what language this is, but I like the sound of it.

Colapso Russo.

Hey @volgr, how about change your avatar to this.

 

[LouderVol]

The US had just as many, if not more instigations and meddlings as the USSR. Guatemala, Iran, The Congo, Vietnam, Laos, Chile, Domincan Republic...

You act like America was out here spreading freedom and democracy. Stop drinking the Kool-aid.

And what do you mean by "Soviet if you wish"? That is what it was. That is a fact. The USSR is not the Russian Federation of today or Tsarist Russia before the revolution. That was a unique and terrible time for the people in that region for over 70 years.

So except for maybe Guatemala, depending on which incident you are referring to, Russia the USSR was involved in those same events. And by your arming argument for the west in Ukraine that would mean Russia was more to claim in most of those cases than us. Since direct intervention/invasion is less escalatory than arming the opposition to the invasion.

 

[hog88]

Russian troops in Kherson are in tough spot. This Ukrainian counter offensive is going to be studied for years to come.

I think it's more of a study in Russian corruption and incompetence than one of brilliant military strategy on the part of the Ukrainians.

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[PKT_VOL]

Now tell me how much territory Russia has left after this 10k km^2 was lost?

Just to give you perspective, Shelby County is 2000 km^2. So the Ukrainians gained 5 counties while the Russians control nearly 25-30 of the rest of the country. By any measure, you can't say Russia is losing.

When making your analysis of this upcoming game with LSU, you can look at the last 4 years of UT football or look at the last 4 games. Which are using to glean insights into the game this weekend? Sure, UT has been a struggling program for the past 4 years, but they are trending positively in the last 4 games. When Saturday rolls around, are conditions of the UT program of the last 4 years going to be more relevant than the conditions of the UT team in the first four games this year?

Similarly, the conditions of the Ukraine and Russian armies are very different today than they were on February 24th. It would be a folly to weight the results from February with any significance compared to results of the last 3 months in predicting future outcomes.

 

[tvolsfan]

When making your analysis of this upcoming game with LSU, you can look at the last 4 years of UT football or look at the last 4 games. Which are using to glean insights into the game this weekend? Sure, UT has been a struggling program for the past 4 years, but they are trending positively in the last 4 games. When Saturday rolls around, are conditions of the UT program of the last 4 years going to be more relevant than the conditions of the UT team in the first four games this year?

Similarly, the conditions of the Ukraine and Russian armies are very different today than they were on February 24th. It would be a folly to weight the results from February with any significance compared to results of the last 3 months in predicting future outcomes.

I get the feeling Rasputin knows nothing about the Vols.

 

[LouderVol]

So the USSR govt is no different (or not much different) than the Russian Federation govt of today?

Now you are being ridiculous.

How did a taxi cab driver/translator become President?

He had powerful backers. Backers in place before he took power, going back to the USSR. The same powers than ran that nation

 

[Velo Vol]

Amazing.

 

[tvolsfan]

How did a taxi cab driver/translator become President?

He had powerful backers. Backers in place before he took power, going back to the USSR. The same powers than ran that nation

It’s amazing he thinks he can just make claims about Russia and nobody will fact check him.

 

[LouderVol]

It’s amazing he thinks he can just make claims about Russia and nobody will fact check him.

It would help if he applied any of the same critical thinking to them. Then at least he wouldnt be so quick to hold up Russia as a beacon on a hill.

 

[Velo Vol]

Thread.

 

[evillawyer]

Thread.

Particularly enjoyed this observation:

 

[evillawyer]

Or as Trump would call it, "winning"

https://www.politico.eu/article/putins-mobilization-will-further-upend-the-russian-economy/

 

[Orangeburst]

Might want to look at the totals killed in war since NATO.

You total up every single little conflict we have been involved in and it doesnt even come close to our losses in WW1, yet alone WW2. Same with the amount of destruction of our opponents.

It didnt stop war, but it made it far smaller. As I continue to say Russia has enjoyed its longest ever period of no invasions in its history due to NATO.

I mean maybe you are an absolutist so it's a failure. But when you look at the scale of history these last 70 plus years have been relatively peaceful when before the trend was ever more violence.

I would attribute the avoidance of large scale war due to nuclear deterrence
Now everything is just proxy war

 

[LouderVol]

I would attribute the avoidance of large scale war due to nuclear deterrence
Now everything is just proxy war

Thats a fair point.

But there are plenty of areas without nukes that would still be worth fighting over for one side or the other. The only risk of MAD raises from NATO/Russia being possibly drawn in. South America, Africa, SE Asia. Heck we have been trying in the ME for decades and it hasnt happened.

Proxy wars are the go to because two powerful groups still exist. Nukes are just a part of that.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Is Germany our ally? Why would an American rep praise the destruction of infrastucture?

"To be an enemy of the US is dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal."

Henry Kissinger