War in Ukraine

#46,256
#46,256
Orangeburst said:
Caught this link

The Neocons and the Woke Left Are Joining Hands and Leading to Woke War III

Hive Minds....interesting
Click to expand...
I’d say it’s more likely that this is just an issue where the overwhelming majority of people - left, right, and center - simply see what’s right and just. Even most people who don’t really want to send any money to Ukraine see that Russia’s position is ridiculous.

What’s really bizarre is the people on both fringes simping for Putin and parroting obvious propaganda about Ukraine being run by Nazis.
 
  • Like
Reactions: USF grad in TN, InVOLuntary, Hunerwadel and 1 other person
#46,264
#46,264
AM64 said:
You do know that being part of something or living through a part of history is different from reading about it later. There's a significant difference. What you read today is done with hindsight - that what might have happened didn't. When living in the moment, you don't have the luxury of knowing it turned out OK.
Click to expand...
I fully understand that living through something is far different than reading about it afterwards. But that wasn't the point you tried to make to me when you made your condescending comment.

AM64 said:
You obviously weren't around for enough of the Cold War to gain historical perspective.
Click to expand...

This comment suggested that since you lived through the times, that meant you had a better understanding of the information. That obviously is not necessarily the case. Now, in you comment that I highlight above, you clearly say that living in that moment, you are functioning and basingyour decisions on the feelings and information at hand. I completely understand making decisions based onthe information presented to you at the time. The problem is that you know and I know and everyone else with an ounce of common sense knows in retrospect that the assumptions and decisions made back then were based on false information and lies. It's OK, Boomer. Everybody makes mistakes. You were propagandized into believeing in the Domino Theory and that the commies were going to be knocking on your door if you didn't fight the commines in SE Asia... no different than some of you feel that if you didn't fight those damn Muslims in the caves of Afghanistan (rather than the streets of Riyadh, London, Tel Aviv or Langley, Va) that terrorists would be blowing up your grandkids.


AM64 said:
Sure we should be able and hope to depend on diplomacy. It just hasn't turned out that diplomats have a great track record.
Click to expand...
Who's fault is that? America has not used diplomacy or been honest brokers since WWII. The American foreign policy stance since then has been that either you walk with us and meet our conditions unconditionally or you are an enemy. That doesn't exactly open the door for diplomacy or negotiations.

American has shown that they are unwilling to give up anything in negotiations. Or they choose to not negotiate with groups that they feel are unfit.

AM64 said:
Often they are just fools that get it wrong - in fact, I think the list of great diplomats would be very short. Sometimes diplomats may have been up to the task, but the decision makers gave them little room to work. An example: you've pointed out Europe's dependency on other regions for energy needs. Hitler knew and understood which was a major reason for conquering other countries. No amount of diplomacy is going to cure a German telling Romania "we're taking over because we need your oil and refining."
Click to expand...
Well, your example with regards to Germany shows your lack of historical perspective. Germany was fuly aware of their energy needs and deficits around the turn of the 20th Century. They were trying to build a Berlin-Baghdad-Basra railway in order to get satisfy their energy needs, but the British Empire made sure they scuttled those plans. So don't come in here and act as though Germany was some group of tyrants, either.

I swear, "keep America in, keep Russia out and keep germany down"... you guys love stepping onthe necks of Germans and Russians when those guys were making honest efforst to break away from Anglo-American control for close to two centuries.


AM64 said:
Size matters (when it comes down to resources); we enough land to meet basic needs - a lot of other countries don't have the landmass encompassing natural resources to say the same, and that's the likely reason for many wars ... and colonialism. Diplomacy could solve some of that assuming the country with needed resources is developed enough to produce and trade.
Click to expand...

Then why the f^^k are we meddling and manipulating in regions on the other side of the f^^king globe over energy and resources? Again, this is pizz pour leadership and piz pour philosophy... an philosophy that you obviously have some need to continue to justify. The sooner you come to grips with the point that America's foreign policy has been a disaster for not just these smaller 3rd world s^^thole countries, but more importantly, for ourselves, the sooner we might be able to pull ourselves out of this ditch. But as long as people like you walk around and pump this narrative that America is perfect and is above criticism or skepticism, then we will end up isolating ourselves from the world.
 
#46,266
#46,266
AM64 said:
Sounds like somebody should get a clue and understand who is playing the home game and what the stakes actually are. In this case the home team isn't fighting to win a game; they are fighting for survival. There's the old adage about not cornering a dangerous animal, and apparently some people are just too dumb to understand. Apparently Pootin's balls were bigger than his brain because he definitely didn't understand what he was getting in to when he started his 3 day war.
Click to expand...
Your comment assumes that Ukraine is the only one that thinks they are fighting a war of survival. Russia has been asking NATO for 30 years to simply not expand and move east. It was a simple and basic security concern they had. Whether you think it was a legitimate concern or not is of no matter. If the US has security concerns about other foreign powers being in our sphere of influence, the decent and diplomatic thing to do would be for the US to respect and have consideration for the concerns of the security concerns of other regional powers. But obviously, since WWII (or really after 1991), the US felt as though they were the bully of the block and could dictate our ouw set of rukes and double standards. China, as much as I disagree with their system of govt, has regional security concerns that could be easily resolved with diplomacy rather than escalating into a military conflict. The same is true of Russia. Again, we don't have diplomats or we have no interest in using diplomacy. We want all countries to bend to our will and desires on an unconditional basis. And if some punk azz country does try to stand up for themselves (Libya, Iraq, Syria) then we go in and try to regime change them or as you all euphormistically say "spread freedom and democracy".
 
#46,268
#46,268
Rasputin_Vol said:
I fully understand that living through something is far different than reading about it afterwards. But that wasn't the point you tried to make to me when you made your condescending comment.



This comment suggested that since you lived through the times, that meant you had a better understanding of the information. That obviously is not necessarily the case. Now, in you comment that I highlight above, you clearly say that living in that moment, you are functioning and basingyour decisions on the feelings and information at hand. I completely understand making decisions based onthe information presented to you at the time. The problem is that you know and I know and everyone else with an ounce of common sense knows in retrospect that the assumptions and decisions made back then were based on false information and lies. It's OK, Boomer. Everybody makes mistakes. You were propagandized into believeing in the Domino Theory and that the commies were going to be knocking on your door if you didn't fight the commines in SE Asia... no different than some of you feel that if you didn't fight those damn Muslims in the caves of Afghanistan (rather than the streets of Riyadh, London, Tel Aviv or Langley, Va) that terrorists would be blowing up your grandkids.



Who's fault is that? America has not used diplomacy or been honest brokers since WWII. The American foreign policy stance since then has been that either you walk with us and meet our conditions unconditionally or you are an enemy. That doesn't exactly open the door for diplomacy or negotiations.

American has shown that they are unwilling to give up anything in negotiations. Or they choose to not negotiate with groups that they feel are unfit.


Well, your example with regards to Germany shows your lack of historical perspective. Germany was fuly aware of their energy needs and deficits around the turn of the 20th Century. They were trying to build a Berlin-Baghdad-Basra railway in order to get satisfy their energy needs, but the British Empire made sure they scuttled those plans. So don't come in here and act as though Germany was some group of tyrants, either.

I swear, "keep America in, keep Russia out and keep germany down"... you guys love stepping onthe necks of Germans and Russians when those guys were making honest efforst to break away from Anglo-American control for close to two centuries.




Then why the f^^k are we meddling and manipulating in regions on the other side of the f^^king globe over energy and resources? Again, this is pizz pour leadership and piz pour philosophy... an philosophy that you obviously have some need to continue to justify. The sooner you come to grips with the point that America's foreign policy has been a disaster for not just these smaller 3rd world s^^thole countries, but more importantly, for ourselves, the sooner we might be able to pull ourselves out of this ditch. But as long as people like you walk around and pump this narrative that America is perfect and is above criticism or skepticism, then we will end up isolating ourselves from the world.
Click to expand...
I enjoy simple and concise rebuttals. Your opinion as observed by everyone else

ED127C06-C002-4B17-BE97-7CDDF19AABA1.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rocky_Top_Vol13, hog88, tvolsfan and 3 others
#46,269
#46,269
AM64 said:
Except NATO is a mutual support treaty and not outright annexation of another country. And the UK left the EU peacefully. Ask Hungary and Poland how that kind of thing worked for them. For some strange reason, I see a significant difference. BTW, in case you forgot or never knew, the walls and fences around the Soviet Union weren't to keep people out. NATO countries and the EU don't have that problem.
Click to expand...
Wow... Kosovo? Their support of a Kurdish state?

Really? Your azz really didn't type this buls^^t did you?
 
#46,270
#46,270
AM64 said:
Except NATO is a mutual support treaty and not outright annexation of another country. And the UK left the EU peacefully. Ask Hungary and Poland how that kind of thing worked for them. For some strange reason, I see a significant difference. BTW, in case you forgot or never knew, the walls and fences around the Soviet Union weren't to keep people out. NATO countries and the EU don't have that problem.
Click to expand...
Yep... that was the Soviet Union. Now is Putin trying to keep people in Russia that want to leave right now?

Gotd*mn... you Boomers can't sake the idea that the Russian federation of today is not the same as the USSR. If anything, based on what we have seen over the last 2 years, Canada is far closer to the USSR than anything you all could lie about Russia being. But again, your bigotry and previous Cold War biases are blinding you.
 
#46,271
#46,271
landscapingvol said:
That makes zero sense even for you, the Germans screwed themselves with their reliance on Russian fuel and have consistently made decisions against their own interests.
Click to expand...
No, they screwed themselves with shutting down nukes and thinking that the US would be able to supply them with LNG at the same volume and price should things go wrong.
 
#46,272
#46,272
Rasputin_Vol said:
I fully understand that living through something is far different than reading about it afterwards. But that wasn't the point you tried to make to me when you made your condescending comment.



This comment suggested that since you lived through the times, that meant you had a better understanding of the information. That obviously is not necessarily the case. Now, in you comment that I highlight above, you clearly say that living in that moment, you are functioning and basingyour decisions on the feelings and information at hand. I completely understand making decisions based onthe information presented to you at the time. The problem is that you know and I know and everyone else with an ounce of common sense knows in retrospect that the assumptions and decisions made back then were based on false information and lies. It's OK, Boomer. Everybody makes mistakes. You were propagandized into believeing in the Domino Theory and that the commies were going to be knocking on your door if you didn't fight the commines in SE Asia... no different than some of you feel that if you didn't fight those damn Muslims in the caves of Afghanistan (rather than the streets of Riyadh, London, Tel Aviv or Langley, Va) that terrorists would be blowing up your grandkids.



Who's fault is that? America has not used diplomacy or been honest brokers since WWII. The American foreign policy stance since then has been that either you walk with us and meet our conditions unconditionally or you are an enemy. That doesn't exactly open the door for diplomacy or negotiations.

American has shown that they are unwilling to give up anything in negotiations. Or they choose to not negotiate with groups that they feel are unfit.


Well, your example with regards to Germany shows your lack of historical perspective. Germany was fuly aware of their energy needs and deficits around the turn of the 20th Century. They were trying to build a Berlin-Baghdad-Basra railway in order to get satisfy their energy needs, but the British Empire made sure they scuttled those plans. So don't come in here and act as though Germany was some group of tyrants, either.

I swear, "keep America in, keep Russia out and keep germany down"... you guys love stepping onthe necks of Germans and Russians when those guys were making honest efforst to break away from Anglo-American control for close to two centuries.




Then why the f^^k are we meddling and manipulating in regions on the other side of the f^^king globe over energy and resources? Again, this is pizz pour leadership and piz pour philosophy... an philosophy that you obviously have some need to continue to justify. The sooner you come to grips with the point that America's foreign policy has been a disaster for not just these smaller 3rd world s^^thole countries, but more importantly, for ourselves, the sooner we might be able to pull ourselves out of this ditch. But as long as people like you walk around and pump this narrative that America is perfect and is above criticism or skepticism, then we will end up isolating ourselves from the world.
Click to expand...

Ras, I've made it clear that I see the Brits historically as being the problem throughout most of the world. There aren't many places they didn't screw up at one time or another. Several European countries were guilty, but the Brits take the prize hands down for meddling.

You might tell us when and who you think has really deployed effective and honest diplomacy - of the altruistic kind. The list has to be pretty short.

As far as the domino theory, the dominos didn't fall as far as projected, but there was certainly some proof that it wasn't completely wrong. Insurgents from the communist government next door can certainly be a problem - especially in the third world or any place there's a disparity of wealth and living standards - perceived or real disparity is what communist style revolution thrives on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hog88
#46,273
#46,273
evillawyer said:
Man, this is good stuff Ras. You still feeling this way? You still laughing about the "frostbite" narrative?
Click to expand...
Time, truth and numbers are all on my side. Winter is coming... along with 300k more soldiers.

This is a battle for the future of humanity. Obviously, we know what side your azz is on. The people that can see with proper clarity and discernment can see that the woke/anti-family/anti-nation state nihilists are on the losing end right now.
 
#46,274
#46,274
Rasputin_Vol said:
Wow... Kosovo? Their support of a Kurdish state?

Really? Your azz really didn't type this buls^^t did you?
Click to expand...

Wasn't Kosovo a UN - not a NATO action? Was it not all primed to blow when decades earlier European powers packed disparate religions and ethnicities into "nations" all primed to blow? Would you call that patchwork of cobbled together countries a failure of diplomacy?
 
#46,275
#46,275
AM64 said:
As far as the domino theory, the dominos didn't fall as far as projected, but there was certainly some proof that it wasn't completely wrong. Insurgents from the communist government next door can certainly be a problem - especially in the third world or any place there's a disparity of wealth and living standards - perceived or real disparity is what communist style revolution thrives on.
Click to expand...
So keep this same energy and line of thinking and put yourself in Russia's shoes over the past 30+ years. NATO has been an adversary of the USSR/Warsaw Pact since the 1950s and suddenly in 1991, the USSR is supposed to accept the idea that NATO is free to move into places like Ukraine (3rd world, disparaity of wealth and living conditions)? Because your azz can at least admit that Ukraine was a sh^thole European country, right? The poorest and most corrupt European country, right?

Again, this goes down to you guys not being intellectually honest and not willing to put yourselves in the same shoes as Russia is in because you have this superiority complex and think that Russia (or China) don't have the right to have their security concerns respected.

That is why we will always be in some sort of conflict or stand off because our ruling class and some of you guys support direct American intervention in every gotda^mn thing... except where American/Western elites and the political class can't turn a quick buck (Rwanda in the mid-1990s for example).
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top