War in Ukraine

#46,276
#46,276
Rasputin_Vol said:
Time, truth and numbers are all on my side. Winter is coming... along with 300k more soldiers.

This is a battle for the future of humanity. Obviously, we know what side your azz is on. The people that can see with proper clarity and discernment can see that the woke/anti-family/anti-nation state nihilists are on the losing end right now.
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History shows from Napoleon through Nazi attacks on Russia that playing war in that part of the world in winter is risky business. Russia could take a lesson from history, pack up, go home, and save a lot of people a lot of grief. Stalingrad (whatever the current name) is just east of this battleground, and history says the winter siege was a killer.
 
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#46,277
#46,277
AM64 said:
Wasn't Kosovo a UN - not a NATO action? Was it not all primed to blow when decades earlier European powers packed disparate religions and ethnicities into "nations" all primed to blow? Would you call that patchwork of cobbled together countries a failure of diplomacy?
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Kosovo was a NATO bombing campaign, sir. 70+ days of bombing, including the bombing of the Chinese embassy. Gotd^mn... you can't even admit NATO bombed Serbia and created Kosovo? Talk about "historical perspective". Nah... you just care about your fantasy about America being on the side of good all the gotd^man time.

My solution would simply be non-intervention, commerce with all, diplomacy and self-sufficiency. Not gunboat diplomacy, non-negotiating and escalation through military means.
 
#46,278
#46,278
AM64 said:
History shows from Napoleon through Nazi attacks on Russia that playing war in that part of the world in winter is risky business. Russia could take a lesson from history, pack up, go home, and save a lot of people a lot of grief. Stalingrad (whatever the current name) is just east of this battleground, and history says the winter siege was a killer.
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Russia is on their home turf. Your warnings need to be directed towards NATO and the US. It's obvious that Kyiv isn't making these calls.
 
#46,280
#46,280
Rasputin_Vol said:
So keep this same energy and line of thinking and put yourself in Russia's shoes over the past 30+ years. NATO has been an adversary of the USSR/Warsaw Pact since the 1950s and suddenly in 1991, the USSR is supposed to accept the idea that NATO is free to move into places like Ukraine (3rd world, disparaity of wealth and living conditions)? Because your azz can at least admit that Ukraine was a sh^thole European country, right? The poorest and most corrupt European country, right?

Again, this goes down to you guys not being intellectually honest and not willing to put yourselves in the same shoes as Russia is in because you have this superiority complex and think that Russia (or China) don't have the right to have their security concerns respected.

That is why we will always be in some sort of conflict or stand off because our ruling class and some of you guys support direct American intervention in every gotda^mn thing... except where American/Western elites and the political class can't turn a quick buck (Rwanda in the mid-1990s for example).
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Ras, I can't help you with your anti US/NATO/EU thinking - people here have been arguing with you on this topic for months ... and making no impact against the Ras Wall. The EU and NATO didn't go invading neighboring states and enslaving them. I think you have to go back and revisit the Soviet one way borders and why they were one way. BTW, a couple of years after the Berlin Wall fell, I got to swing a sledgehammer and knock off a few pieces of a still standing portion, and damn that concrete was hard, but I really think your wall has it beat. The funny thing is that on other topics I very often agree with you.
 
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#46,281
#46,281
AM64 said:
History shows from Napoleon through Nazi attacks on Russia that playing war in that part of the world in winter is risky business. Russia could take a lesson from history, pack up, go home, and save a lot of people a lot of grief. Stalingrad (whatever the current name) is just east of this battleground, and history says the winter siege was a killer.
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Volgograd...

The Motherland Calls - Wikipedia


1664943858055.png
 
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#46,282
#46,282
AM64 said:
Ras, I can't help you with your anti US/NATO/EU thinking - people here have been arguing with you on this topic for months ... and making no impact against the Ras Wall. The EU and NATO didn't go invading neighboring states and enslaving them. I think you have to go back and revisit the Soviet one way borders and why they were one way. BTW, a couple of years after the Berlin Wall fell, I got to swing a sledgehammer and knock off a few pieces of a still standing portion, and damn that concrete was hard, but I really think your wall has it beat. The funny thing is that on other topics I very often agree with you.
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Show me where the Russian Federation (not the USSR) has gone in to enslave anyone. They had to invade Ukraine for two existential reasons:
1. To protect the Russian people in Donbas
2. To demilitarize Ukraine and prevent NATO from establishing an foothold on their border
 
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#46,283
#46,283
Rasputin_Vol said:
Time, truth and numbers are all on my side. Winter is coming... along with 300k more soldiers.

This is a battle for the future of humanity. Obviously, we know what side your azz is on. The people that can see with proper clarity and discernment can see that the woke/anti-family/anti-nation state nihilists are on the losing end right now.
Click to expand...
This isn't a battle being fought for some concept like the nuclear family or anti wokeness. Putin isn't some altruistic knight fighting for the worlds soul.
 
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#46,285
#46,285
AM64 said:
Ras, I can't help you with your anti US/NATO/EU thinking - people here have been arguing with you on this topic for months ... and making no impact against the Ras Wall. The EU and NATO didn't go invading neighboring states and enslaving them. I think you have to go back and revisit the Soviet one way borders and why they were one way. BTW, a couple of years after the Berlin Wall fell, I got to swing a sledgehammer and knock off a few pieces of a still standing portion, and damn that concrete was hard, but I really think your wall has it beat. The funny thing is that on other topics I very often agree with you.
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I haven't changed. But to me it it is obvious that youall want to have one set of rules for the US and have justifications for our actions, yet when Russia or China or anyone else has the same concerns in their sphere of influence, then you all do not want to take them seriously. That is the frustrating part. And there is no reason at all for America to have thispious attitude because we have done as much, if not more, corrupt regime change and nonsesne acrossthe globe than China or Russia.

If you clowns think that we shouldhave American boys die over Taiwan or Ukraine or a sandbox in the ME or some rice patty in SE Asia or even a banana planation in Central America, then you are th f^^king problem... not me. Let's not even go into having the discussion about provoking a nuclear exchange over these countries.
 
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#46,286
#46,286
KB5252 said:
This isn't a battle being fought for some concept like the nuclear family or anti wokeness. Putin isn't some altruistic knight fighting for the worlds soul.
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He certainly fits the bill thus far. Show me any Western leader promoting the things Putin is right now outside of Orban or Meoloni.
 
#46,288
#46,288
Rasputin_Vol said:
Show me where the Russian Federation (not the USSR) has gone in to enslave anyone. They had to invade Ukraine for two existential reasons:
1. To protect the Russian people in Donbas
2. To demilitarize Ukraine and prevent NATO from establishing an foothold on their border
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Hey, you've been slipping back and forth in time warps to make your plays. The rest of us can do the same.

NATO has a foothold on Russia's border, and NATO is a self defense pact. If Russia has no motivation toward aggression and annexation, then a NATO neighbor should be no problem.

With respect to Donbas, I generally plead no real interest in what went on in the past; I could be convinced it should be a separate state belonging to neither Ukraine nor Russia. And there is this.

By 1959, the number of ethnic Russians living there was 2.55 million; just 33 years prior, it had been just 639,000. The Russification of the area accelerated after the 1958–59 Soviet educational reforms, which led to the near elimination of all Ukrainian-language schooling in the Donbas.

According to the Soviet Census of 1989, 45 percent of the population of the region reported their ethnicity as Russian.

So it is no surprise that in the 1991 referendum on Ukrainian independence, 83.9 percent of voters in Donetsk and 83.6 percent in Luhansk supported independence from the Soviet Union. In October of 1991 a congress of southeastern deputies from all levels of government took place in Donetsk, where delegates demanded federalization.
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Maybe if the Russians who settled in the Donbas region while the Russian operated Soviet Union was in power just went home things might have some normalcy? Immigration while under forced occupation and Russian owned totalitarianism tends to skew historical perspective on who owns what. Yeah, I know Stalin was Georgian and Lenin was a mongrel ... Note I didn't use US "propaganda" for support.

https://greekreporter.com/2022/09/30/history-donbas-donetsk-luhansk/
 
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#46,289
#46,289
Rasputin_Vol said:
Meanwhile, no clean water in Flint. MI or Jackson, MS. Running low on baby formula, toilet paper, labor and energu supplies... but we have another $1 billion for Ukraine.

Biden Announces $625M More Ukraine Defense Aid In Zelensky Phone Call | ZeroHedge
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The Zelensky sack swingers in this thread don’t care about Americans suffering. Only the poor little Ukrainians. We have to keep sending the billions because poor little Zelensky needs it. Funny how no other country has even come close to forking out the amount of money we have to Ukraine. Of course then there is the oh well we don’t know what happened to the money.

All those billions could have went to fixing things here. Yet we have a traitor at the WH who loves Ukrainians more than Americans.
 
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#46,290
#46,290
Rasputin_Vol said:
He certainly fits the bill thus far. Show me any Western leader promoting the things Putin is right now outside of Orban or Meoloni.
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He's simply used them as a pretext to invade a sovereign nation he wanted under his thumb.

He's no different than any politician in the world, you just happen to answer to his dog whistles
 
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#46,292
#46,292
Rasputin_Vol said:
Show me where the Russian Federation (not the USSR) has gone in to enslave anyone. They had to invade Ukraine for two existential reasons:
1. To protect the Russian people in Donbas
2. To demilitarize Ukraine and prevent NATO from establishing an foothold on their border
Click to expand...

We know now that this part will never ever happen for certain. Ukraine will probably build a huge army now over the years, and purchase all kinds of western weapons.
 
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#46,293
#46,293
BigOrangeTrain said:
The Zelensky sack swingers in this thread don’t care about Americans suffering. Only the poor little Ukrainians. We have to keep sending the billions because poor little Zelensky needs it. Funny how no other country has even come close to forking out the amount of money we have to Ukraine. Of course then there is the oh well we don’t know what happened to the money.

All those billions could have went to fixing things here. Yet we have a traitor at the WH who loves Ukrainians more than Americans.
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I we send actual dollars then you can bet that plenty will be sponged off.
 
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#46,296
#46,296
hog88 said:
We should be SELLING and not giving weapons to Europe and Ukraine.
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Europe sure. What is Ukraine going to buy them with? And yes like it or not we agreed to provide aid if they were attacked. And they WERE ATTACKED!

But it’s absolutely ridiculous the sheer dollar amount thus far committed even if it manifests only as replenishment orders… which it won’t.
 
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#46,297
#46,297
NorthDallas40 said:
Europe sure. What is Ukraine going to buy them with? And yes like it or not we agreed to provide aid if they were attacked. And they WERE ATTACKED!

But it’s absolutely ridiculous the sheer dollar amount thus far committed even if it manifests only as replenishment orders… which it won’t.
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We never specified what aid, actually all we agreed to provide is support. So we could have a cheerleader team send them supportive videos everyday and that would meet our obligations. This is a Europe problem, they should be footing the bill and we should be profiting.
 
#46,298
#46,298
hog88 said:
We never specified what aid, actually all we agreed to provide is support. So we could have a cheerleader team send them supportive videos everyday and that would meet our obligations. This is a Europe problem, they should be footing the bill and we should be profiting.
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Yes hogg to all parties involved in the deal it was understood lethal aid was in the realm. Ukraine isn’t signing that and giving up their nukes for a drive by of the Swedish Bikini Team.

Yes it is a Europe problem. Completely agree. But due to our own stupidity and frankly hypocrisy with regards to nuclear arms we too agreed to materially assist. So did the UK.
 
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#46,299
#46,299
NorthDallas40 said:
Yes hogg to all parties involved in the deal it was understood lethal aid was in the realm. Ukraine isn’t signing that and giving up their nukes for a drive by of the Swedish Bikini Team.

Yes it is a Europe problem. Completely agree. But due to our own stupidity and frankly hypocrisy with regards to nuclear arms we too agreed to materially assist. So did the UK.
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Sounds like a good trade to me
 
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