War in Ukraine

#46,301
#46,301
NorthDallas40 said:
Yes hogg to all parties involved in the deal it was understood lethal aid was in the realm. Ukraine isn’t signing that and giving up their nukes for a drive by of the Swedish Bikini Team.

Yes it is a Europe problem. Completely agree. But due to our own stupidity and frankly hypocrisy with regards to nuclear arms we too agreed to materially assist. So did the UK.
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You sound like Ras and his mythical promise to Russia that NATO wouldn't expand east. If it's not specified in the agreement it doesn't exist. We promised support and that is all.
 
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#46,303
#46,303
hog88 said:
You sound like Ras and his mythical promise to Russia that NATO wouldn't expand east. If it's not specified in the agreement it doesn't exist. We promised support and that is all.
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Actually YOU sound like Ras with slow rolling what the Budapest Memorandum actually entails with regards to our obligations not me champ!
 
#46,306
#46,306
hog88 said:
The actual agreement doesn't say anything about providing them arms. That's fact my friend.
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And you sounding like Ras on rewriting the understood commitments is also a fact. It’s a horribly worded document and yet another example how badly we suck at diplomacy. We’ve always just been much better at breaking things than massaging things.
 
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#46,313
#46,313
Rasputin_Vol said:
Yep... that was the Soviet Union. Now is Putin trying to keep people in Russia that want to leave right now?

Gotd*mn... you Boomers can't sake the idea that the Russian federation of today is not the same as the USSR. If anything, based on what we have seen over the last 2 years, Canada is far closer to the USSR than anything you all could lie about Russia being. But again, your bigotry and previous Cold War biases are blinding you.
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Yeah cause all the commies in charge just disappeared. None ever held any power or influence over the country anymore after decades of killing off anything that would remotely look like a non-communist in power. And it's not suspicious at all that one of the arbiters of keeping the communists in power just randomly rose through the ranks from taxi driver to president.

The party disolved. That's it. Largely the same people stayed in power, the only new guys were the sycophants of the old guys who kept there power after the internal struggles.

Would you believe the US government was 100% different and couldnt be associated with the past government if our two parties dissolved?
 
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#46,314
#46,314
NorthDallas40 said:
And you sounding like Ras on rewriting the understood commitments is also a fact. It’s a horribly worded document and yet another example how badly we suck at diplomacy. We’ve always just been much better at breaking things than massaging things.
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If it's not in the agreement it's not in the agreement.
 
#46,316
#46,316
hog88 said:
If it's not in the agreement it's not in the agreement.
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I’ll agree with that assertion in how a binding document should be written. And I’ll also use our dialog on parsing that lousy written document as why we are not trusted in world diplomacy. We suck at nation building. Haven’t had a single success story since Japan at the end of WW2 that I can think of off hand.
 
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#46,319
#46,319
Rasputin_Vol said:
Time, truth and numbers are all on my side. Winter is coming... along with 300k more soldiers.

This is a battle for the future of humanity. Obviously, we know what side your azz is on. The people that can see with proper clarity and discernment can see that the woke/anti-family/anti-nation state nihilists are on the losing end right now.
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Is this the "future of humanity" that you're seeking with your comrades?

 
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#46,320
#46,320
Rasputin_Vol said:
So keep this same energy and line of thinking and put yourself in Russia's shoes over the past 30+ years. NATO has been an adversary of the USSR/Warsaw Pact since the 1950s and suddenly in 1991, the USSR is supposed to accept the idea that NATO is free to move into places like Ukraine (3rd world, disparaity of wealth and living conditions)? Because your azz can at least admit that Ukraine was a sh^thole European country, right? The poorest and most corrupt European country, right?

Again, this goes down to you guys not being intellectually honest and not willing to put yourselves in the same shoes as Russia is in because you have this superiority complex and think that Russia (or China) don't have the right to have their security concerns respected.

That is why we will always be in some sort of conflict or stand off because our ruling class and some of you guys support direct American intervention in every gotda^mn thing... except where American/Western elites and the political class can't turn a quick buck (Rwanda in the mid-1990s for example).
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Except it's not a closed binary system despite how much you want it to be. In all these cases the US, China, and Russia, are third parties. It's no business of Russia who Ukraine decides to be diplomatic with. IF, big IF, nukes were moved into Ukraine, you would have an argument.

typically it's not NATO/US invading someone and saying you are part of NATO now, that's a very important distinction. It may be NATO doesnt like what you are doing, so they invade, but it's not expansion from the use of military force. They use diplomatic means.

You claim to want diplomacy, but when the west uses it to get other nations to join NATO you flip your lid. It's just like your claims about failed diplomacy leading to this fight. The diplomacy you want and what failed was one sided. That's not diplomacy. It has to be give and take or else it's not good diplomacy. The western diplomacy got equal in Ukraine, which ticked off Russia. Remember Ukraine wasnt joining NATO. And again why does Russia care about one neighbor and not another? At the very least that's not consistent diplomacy, which would also be bad diplomacy.
 
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#46,321
#46,321
Rasputin_Vol said:
Russia is on their home turf. Your warnings need to be directed towards NATO and the US. It's obvious that Kyiv isn't making these calls.
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Russia has lost plenty of men to the cold. Equipment too. Their benefit is it's easier for them to replace those losses on their home front rather than shipping in from wherever. It's not like they are immune to the cold themselves.
 
#46,322
#46,322
Rasputin_Vol said:
Time, truth and numbers are all on my side. Winter is coming... along with 300k more soldiers.

This is a battle for the future of humanity. Obviously, we know what side your azz is on. The people that can see with proper clarity and discernment can see that the woke/anti-family/anti-nation state nihilists are on the losing end right now.
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Future of humanity 😂
 
#46,323
#46,323
Rasputin_Vol said:
Show me where the Russian Federation (not the USSR) has gone in to enslave anyone. They had to invade Ukraine for two existential reasons:
1. To protect the Russian people in Donbas
2. To demilitarize Ukraine and prevent NATO from establishing an foothold on their border
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I thought it was to clear Nazis
 
#46,325
#46,325
evillawyer said:
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2 months puts us square in Decemeber. I doubt they will be doing much fighting then. But Russia is dumb to telegraph when the new conscripts will get there.

I am not sure when our boys are considered "combat ready", but basic is 10 weeks. But I am sure these conscripts are just better than our boys and dont need any more training
 
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