War in Ukraine

#46,326
#46,326
Rasputin_Vol said:
Show me where the Russian Federation (not the USSR) has gone in to enslave anyone. They had to invade Ukraine for two existential reasons:
1. To protect the Russian people in Donbas
2. To demilitarize Ukraine and prevent NATO from establishing an foothold on their border
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1. Failing. By the way they are Ukrainians.
2. Failed badly. Ukraine is far more militarized now. Adding two more countries to Nato…may be more if they escalate.
 
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#46,327
#46,327
gnm53108 said:
1. Failing. By the way they are Ukrainians.
2. Failed badly. Ukraine is far mare militarized now. Adding two more countries to Nato…may be more if they escalate.
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The Ukraine is not going to be joining NATO, the Ukraine will simply be the place where weapons are deployed to blow stuff up.

The Ukraine is expendable as is increasingly Europe is. The only use for the Ukraine is to get blown up, that is what its being used for... other than that nobody cares.
 
#46,329
#46,329
Provocation.



FeUappEXwAMRxN0
 
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#46,330
#46,330
LSU-SIU said:
The Ukraine is not going to be joining NATO, the Ukraine will simply be the place where weapons are deployed to blow stuff up.

The Ukraine is expendable as is increasingly Europe is. The only use for the Ukraine is to get blown up, that is what its being used for... other than that nobody cares.
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Don’t know if they’ll end joining NATO or not but strongly disagree with the rest of your post. Both economically and strategically Ukraine is very important. Their food production is vital also.
 
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#46,338
#46,338
The NYT is reporting that the US government believes elements within the Ukrainian government authorized the attack that killed Daria Dugina.
 
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#46,339
#46,339
With Putin's annexation of Ukraine territory. One would think that any advancement it the newly annexed territory would be a provocation of War and Putin may try to use this as a reason for using Battlefield Tactical Nuclear Weapons fired from Artillery. This is just a thought but something to be aware of in the future.
 
#46,342
#46,342
gnm53108 said:
Don’t know if they’ll end joining NATO or not but strongly disagree with the rest of your post. Both economically and strategically Ukraine is very important. Their food production is vital also.
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Whether you believe the Ukraine is needed for food is irrelevant, the major players have determined it to be expendable. The only real use at this point is to be blown up.

Its not about you or what you think or want, they don't care.
 
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#46,343
#46,343
hog88 said:
We should be SELLING and not giving weapons to Europe and Ukraine.
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Definitely Europe should be paying; we might cut some slack to some of the less affluent ex-Soviet states. We gained a lot from the Marshal Plan, so perhaps a little of that is still in order. As far as arms and supplies to Ukraine, they are doing us a big favor right now with respect to taking Russia down a few pegs; I tend to think they are earning what we are giving them. Not to mention Ukraine is a great proving ground for US and NATO armament. Remember early on in Vietnam we got a nasty surprise when Sidewinder missiles proved very unreliable (similar could have been said about the M16) - some things need war to really test them - field vs lab conditions, rough handling, quantity used. The last is really important if a manufacturer is turning out carefully tuned stuff or acceptance testing. Finally China and a full strength Russia would have been a formidable duo had they decided to cooperate against the rest of the world - this trims Russia's sails considerably.
 
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#46,344
#46,344
hog88 said:
You sound like Ras and his mythical promise to Russia that NATO wouldn't expand east. If it's not specified in the agreement it doesn't exist. We promised support and that is all.
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That's probably why diplomacy our style has such a bad name. Undefined "support" can mean a lot of thing to a lot of different people. In the case of Ukraine I'd expect no less than what we are doing as "support" for getting an agreement from Ukraine to give up nukes and make the region safer. Just think, Russia and Ukraine could be trading nukes right now, or Putin might have had second thoughts about invading a country with a nuclear arsenal. Ukraine took the gamble and gave up a real deterrent with expectations of help from us. It's hard to regain trust once lost.
 
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#46,345
#46,345
hog88 said:
The actual agreement doesn't say anything about providing them arms. That's fact my friend.
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Maybe the Ukrainians of the day thought they were dealing in integrity with real diplomats and not scummy used car salesmen promising cars ... just not necessarily the engines and other goodies to make the car work. Who would willingly give up armament without an expectation of support to replace what they gave up?
 
#46,346
#46,346
AM64 said:
That's probably why diplomacy our style has such a bad name. Undefined "support" can mean a lot of thing to a lot of different people. In the case of Ukraine I'd expect no less than what we are doing as "support" for getting an agreement from Ukraine to give up nukes and make the region safer. Just think, Russia and Ukraine could be trading nukes right now, or Putin might have had second thoughts about invading a country with a nuclear arsenal. Ukraine took the gamble and gave up a real deterrent with expectations of help from us. It's hard to regain trust once lost.
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We all have to remember that all of these agreements and treaties are authored by lawyers. They spend years being trained how to strangle words into something that can mean a 1000 different things and nothing all at the same time.
 
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#46,347
#46,347
AM64 said:
Maybe the Ukrainians of the day thought they were dealing in integrity with real diplomats and not scummy used car salesmen promising cars ... just not necessarily the engines and other goodies to make the car work. Who would willingly give up armament without an expectation of support to replace what they gave up?
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They were dealing with Clinton so if they believed that they were stupid.
 
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#46,349
#46,349
hog88 said:
They were dealing with Clinton so if they believed that they were stupid.
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Naïve more than stupid. You have to think they were novices when dealing with the Clintons and believed the US was an honest county. People here understand they would get a better deal from Satan than a Clinton. Most places would see Bill as a very affable, better educated. good ole country boy without realizing the snake within.

My son taught at an AR university and then moved to Fayetteville to get his PhD from AR ... it was a great deal because UA basically paid him to teach (and provided a full scholarship) while earning his PhD - no debt and he lived well. However, you wouldn't believe after the Clintons ran AR just how one sided (against the tenant) lease agreements are in AR. Those two have to be the most corrupt people who have ever walked the face of the earth.
 
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