War in Ukraine

[Velo Vol]

Looks like a classic bird strike to me.

A report that the pilot ejected. I read elsewhere that it's in the area of the airfield. So maybe?

 

[hog88]

Damn, I've been on a high since Saturday afternoon. I came over to catch up on the war and Rasputin's posts hit like a toothless whore's breath on Sunday morning.

Speaking from experience?

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

You can see the flame out right before it dives.

 

[Velo Vol]

Not third-world dictatorshipy at all.

 

[LouderVol]

Spot on. There is no legitimate refutation of this rock solid point.

Except that when we are literally attacked you guys betch and moan. And the worst example you have for the US is Cuba. And we didnt invade them, so your argument doesnt hold water. We did the same as Russia did in arming the rebels. We armed the locals, and sent them to die for us. Difference is, when it failed for the US we didnt use our military to invade, Russia did.

Russia is worse than us.

 

[volfanhill]

Spot on. There is no legitimate refutation of this rock solid point.

Your judgment here is worse then your judgment on the hiring of CJH.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Not third-world dictatorshipy at all.

So stealing Russia's foreign reserves, confiscating property of oligarchs and Gasprom and destroying commercial pipelines are the acts of a first world democracy?

 

[evillawyer]

Missed the landing by that much

 

[LouderVol]

And again, the riots and ANTIFA/BLM mob on the streets? You still ignore that.

That wasnt a coup, that was less than 1/6. They didnt burn down any government buildings. Didnt run out the elected officials. Didnt attempt to seize the chambers of an ongoing vote. There was no attempt by the people to seize power. That was protesting...so at worst your argument is the US backed a protest.....the Russians are the ones who backed a coup in the east. They are the ones who did all the things that define a coup.

The rest of the world isnt Russia. A protest isnt typically considered treasonous. The people were within their rights to do so. They really really didnt like what Yanukoych did. You cant accept that. Just like Putin couldnt accept that his own invasion wouldnt be popular with the Ukrainians.

 

[volfanhill]

RAS is getting dragged in multiple threads today. It's good for him.

 

[LouderVol]

What’s very well documented is the Ukrainian parliament vote to remove Putin’s lapdog Yanukovych Curly. It’s all recorded. No need for “but there were phone calls” or “ but these people met with those people” in other words no guessed at bull ****. Just a straight up legal and constitutional parliamentary action.

The phone call wasnt nefarious at all. It's literally their job. I would be concerned if our Ambassador to Ukraine wasnt talking to our state department about the new Ukrainian president. It's their job. But because America, and cookies, it must be wrong.

 

[volgr]

Except that when we are literally attacked you guys betch and moan. And the worst example you have for the US is Cuba. And we didnt invade them, so your argument doesnt hold water. We did the same as Russia did in arming the rebels. We armed the locals, and sent them to die for us. Difference is, when it failed for the US we didnt use our military to invade, Russia did.

Russia is worse than us.

Like I said, they have no refutation to Ras's (myself and others who have made it as well) point, as evidenced in the reply above. It really is pitiful.

 

[Velo Vol]

So stealing Russia's foreign reserves, confiscating property of oligarchs and Gasprom and destroying commercial pipelines are the acts of a first world democracy?

When done to protect that democracy.

 

[NorthDallas40]

The phone call wasnt nefarious at all. It's literally their job. I would be concerned if our Ambassador to Ukraine wasnt talking to our state department about the new Ukrainian president. It's their job. But because America, and cookies, it must be wrong.

Yep. The stooges continually inflate state dept employees doing state dept employee things. But hey that inflation obviously trumps the factual open record of Yanukovych’s unilateral policy shifts, cancelling signing a prior agreed to European agreement at the very last minute, and then the Parliament holding him accountable for those choices and throwing his ass out amirite?

 

[volgr]

So stealing Russia's foreign reserves, confiscating property of oligarchs and Gasprom and destroying commercial pipelines are the acts of a first world democracy?

Whoah whoah whoah there buddy. Don't you start using that whataboutism logic. You know that isn't allowed and a Kremlin tactic, comrade.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Like I said, they have no refutation to Ras's (myself and others who have made it as well) point, as evidenced in the reply above. It really is pitiful.

He literally refuted the claims of a Cuba invasion in the post you quoted Larry

 

[LouderVol]

Not third-world dictatorshipy at all.

Yeah but it would be bad if the US did it. Remember some vague example from the 1910s where the US totally didnt actually occupy the other country.

 

[MontyPython]

Oops. Doubt that's gonna buff out.

 

[hog88]

Like I said, they have no refutation to Ras's (myself and others who have made it as well) point, as evidenced in the reply above. It really is pitiful.

Y'all made a point? I must have missed it.

 

[LouderVol]

Like I said, they have no refutation to Ras's (myself and others who have made it as well) point, as evidenced in the reply above. It really is pitiful.

Sure there is. We didnt follow up the Bay of Pigs with a military invasion. We didnt do as much as Russia did, yet you just "conviently" miss and or avoid that point. Just like the Moskva, and the start of the counter offensive.

Also russia didnt act similarly when this same military alliance moved closer/got on a border in the Baltic states or Finland. So they arent even consistent themselves.

The reason Ukraine is different is because Russia's coup failed. Putin had to save face with his uber-aggressive party/consitutients, and so he turned to war. It was an act of desperation or completely mis reading the situation. And that desperation, or really bad judgement rolled into the war. First with the airdrops that saw a lot of elite troops slaughtered or captured. Then the "feint" towards Kiev designed to make Ukraine capitulate early on. Then the slow grind in the east that stretched his troops out too far, allowing the Ukrainians to counter attack and take backs loads of territory, including on of the capitals of one of the break away regions. The annexation itself was an act of desperation. Why do that during a war when things arent decided? If you are winning, what difference does it make if you annex now or later? It was done so Putin can justify mobilizing his country to protect "their" land instead of having to mobilize the country in order to invade some other country.

 

[volfanhill]

We should all really respect Putin and the Russians. We should all be so blessed to live in such an environment.

Ex-journalist accused of "fake news" on Ukraine war has fled Russia - lawyer

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Except that when we are literally attacked you guys betch and moan. And the worst example you have for the US is Cuba. And we didnt invade them, so your argument doesnt hold water. We did the same as Russia did in arming the rebels. We armed the locals, and sent them to die for us. Difference is, when it failed for the US we didnt use our military to invade, Russia did.

Russia is worse than us.

This is weasel wording/lawyer talk.

And let's assume you are correct, what difference does it really make in the end if we had boots on the ground or if we armed and trained Cuban exiles as our proxy?

You all cannot be this silly. Using proxies doesn't allow you to have any deniability.

Also, let's also not forget that the original plans were for the US to provide air support, so even then, that would have been direct US involvement.

 

[volgr]

This is weasel wording/lawyer talk.

And let's assume you are correct, what difference does it really make in the end if we had boots on the ground or if we armed and trained Cuban exiles as our proxy?

You all cannot be this silly. Using proxies doesn't allow you to have any deniability.

Also, let's also not forget that the original plans were for the US to provide air support, so even then, that would have been direct US involvement.

Arguing about Cuba isn't all that important to me. The basic fact that they cannot refute is, the US has used a very broad self defense case for invading other Countries over the last 30 years. Russia is now doing the same. Case closed. Russia also used an old case, can't remember the Country, where the UN respected the vote of an area to annex, which Russia at the time argued was invalid. So, Russia used that pretext and held the exact same type of referendums in the now 4 annexed portions of Ukraine. The UN, if it is consistent, must now respect that referendum and accept these annexed former Ukrainian territories, to be Russian.

Trolls can whine about Putin, call him all the usual names, etc...but he beat them at their own game....and much like Trump who did the same, they will now try and destroy him.

 

[LouderVol]

Y'all made a point? I must have missed it.

It's their same point. It's bad when the US did it 70 years ago, but it's ok when Russia does it now.

 

[LouderVol]

This is weasel wording/lawyer talk.

And let's assume you are correct, what difference does it really make in the end if we had boots on the ground or if we armed and trained Cuban exiles as our proxy?

You all cannot be this silly. Using proxies doesn't allow you to have any deniability.

Also, let's also not forget that the original plans were for the US to provide air support, so even then, that would have been direct US involvement.

So now the US is at fault for what they planned to do, but didnt do, but Russia gets a pass on what it actually did? Yeah, keep acting like you card about the truth.

I pointed out the similarities and differences, and you skipped past it. Our armed Cubans equal the armed rebels and mercenaries in Dontesk. To that extent we were equal. Russia then followed up those rebels with a full blown invasion. The US, despite your what if about air support, did not invade.

I legit dont know this, so maybe it blows up in my face, but I dont care about being right, I just would like to know. I dont think the US armed the Cubans as much as the Russians armed the rebels. I know we gave the Cubans man portable equipment, and transport. I dont think we gave them any other heavy equipment, maybe I am wrong. The Russians gave the rebels tanks, AA, artillery.

We certainly didnt continuously supply them over 8 years of conflict. We certainly didnt negotiate with Cuba on their behalf. G

There is a pretty sizable order of magnitude difference here. Bug enough to change the conversation.