War in Ukraine

#51,226
#51,226
volgr said:
A stalemate is their cope.

As for Polish mercs, I don't understand why Poland is allowing their citizens to go die in Ukraine. Seems they would want those guys alive and in their own service. Unless they are undesirable types.
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Isn’t that you stooges Larry? I mean even Russia is admitting they’re retreating as fast as they can… wait my bad “negative advancing” 🤣🤣🤣
 
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#51,227
#51,227
Rasputin_Vol said:
Just like we were invited into Syria?

Let's keep things current.

Also, even if it was 100 years ago, the logic and reasoning behind it is the same. The US has a history of doing this and justified it at the time no differently than Russia is today.
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Then why didn’t the US and NATO do it yesterday you lying inconsistent stooge? This would have been an absolutely prime opportunity Moe🤡
 
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#51,228
#51,228
Rasputin_Vol said:
How do you call it a stalemate when Russia has re-instated 20% of country? And Polish mercenaries are dying by the boatloads right now in Ukraine.
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Russian and other foreign mercs are dying at an insane rate as well. So much so that Russia's regular military has resorted to drafting poorly trusted and poorly equipped citizens to the front to infuse the depleted ranks so they could pull off this tactical retreat.

Russia shot their wad and has had to completely reinforce their army. Russia initially tried a classic pincher two pronged assault but realized the casualties in that urban warfare situation weren't sustainable. They wisely reevaluated and decided to concentrate forces in the south and east. They sent a massive invasion force and by some accounts I've seen Russia has lost 50% or more of that force. I've seen some crazy estimate but somewhere around 60 to 80k, possibly more Russian troops lost. That's an insane number.

Ukraine had likely lost that number or more too. Russia has a population problem as do many countries. Are they going to throw this generation into the meat grinder? For what? They will be toothless for decades at this rate. Even if they win and take 25% of Ukraine they've still lost. Putin isn't very bright.
 
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#51,230
#51,230
KB5252 said:
Russian and other foreign mercs are dying at an insane rate as well. So much so that Russia's regular military has resorted to drafting poorly trusted and poorly equipped citizens to the front to infuse the depleted ranks so they could pull off this tactical retreat.
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This goes to show how well the West's propaganda war is going. Total BS, but this clown heard it on CNN so it must be true.
 
#51,234
#51,234
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#51,235
#51,235
tvolsfan said:
What about…
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If you cannot use the same standards for two situations, then you are not being just. Russia is actually far less imperialistic since WWII than USA. Yet, somehow, we are the shining city on the hill... the exceptional nation and all that nonsense.
 
#51,237
#51,237
volgr said:
NATO is training, providing weapons, providing intel and not prohibiting their citizens from becoming mercs. They are doing everything but putting boots on the ground. As I have said, Putin has shown far more restraint than the US would if the shoe were on the other foot.
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Training has never been an act of war. Pretty much every nation ever had provided "advisors" to the conflict that train the troops or leaders. It's never been an act of war.
Providing weapons has never been an act of war.
Providing Intel has never been an act of war.
Not banning their citizens from making personal choices about what level of support they provide another nation, short of espionage against the host country, has never been an act of war.
Sanctions have also never been an act of war.

All of those things are done to avoid actual acts of war. And without going full dictator I am not sure how a nation would restrict it's own citizens movement or money.

If you want I can provide a list of times Russia/USSR has been guilty of all of those, and probably against the US, and we never considered ourselves at war.

This is the same American exceptionalism that I just dont get. It's not bad, except when America does it.
 
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#51,238
#51,238
volgr said:
I said weeks ago it was looking increasingly likely that Russia would be forced to move to the other side of the River. Not a surprise. Thankfully most of the Kherson citizens were evacuated so they aren't being exposed to Ukrainian cruelty, that is more important than a flag.
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Lol. Cruelty?

I mean I guess those were Assault Hugs we were witnessing in all those videos of citizens welcoming Ukraines soldiers.

But please point out that them dealing with traitors violenty means they treat all their citizens that way.
 
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#51,239
#51,239
volgr said:
This goes to show how well the West's propaganda war is going. Total BS, but this clown heard it on CNN so it must be true.
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You don't think it's real? I guess it all depends on who's propoganda you take in. For what it's worth I have some friends in military and former. My brother has some friends who are former operators. They tell us that according to some friends still working that a good portion of what we've heard about Russian supply and kit is true.

FIY there are some former operators on ground in Ukraine now who would know, mainly in intelligence and advisory capacities. Who see what Russian reinforcements are bringing to battle. It's not top shelf latest gen kit by any means. Not third world either but not what you'd expect of a healthy, modern military.

I won't speak to what news says. I'll just tell you what I've heard from people I've known since they were in their teens.
 
#51,241
#51,241
KB5252 said:
Most of the recent updates I've seen are saying this appears to have been a missile intended to intercept a Russian missile. This is coming from Polish sources. This does not get Russia off the hook however. Article 4 will still be involved because Russia is responsible for the aggressive actions that resulted in these countermeasures being used and going astray.

Russia is playing with fire at this point. Poland has a lot of resentment towards Russia. Russia would be wise to stay as far away from Poland as it can with strikes. LVIV is too close and they are playing with fire.
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Lol. Article 4 is a conversation. "Invoking" it implies a lot more than it is.

Also Ukraine is responsible for happens with anything they deploy. I doubt Poland would consider it as bad as an attack from Russia, but Ukraine would still be responsible. Just like self defense doesnt apply if you hit another citizen and not the bad guy.
 
#51,242
#51,242
KB5252 said:
FIY there are some former operators on ground in Ukraine now who would know, mainly in intelligence and advisory capacities. Who see what Russian reinforcements are bringing to battle. It's not top shelf latest gen kit by any means. Not third world either but not what you'd expect of a healthy, modern military.
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This is likely the only truthful thing I read in this post.

Also, did you just out your friends and say that we have US boots on the ground in Ukraine?
 
#51,243
#51,243
LouderVol said:
Lol. Article 4 is a conversation. "Invoking" it implies a lot more than it is.

Also Ukraine is responsible for happens with anything they deploy. I doubt Poland would consider it as bad as an attack from Russia, but Ukraine would still be responsible. Just like self defense doesnt apply if you hit another citizen and not the bad guy.
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The word invoke should not have been used there, I'll concede. But it's much more than just a conversation. It's notice lines are very close to being crossed.
 
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#51,244
#51,244
Rasputin_Vol said:
WTF will Poland do? They are going to do just like they did yesterday and try to pull the rest of NATO in with them. They are no better than Ukraine hiding behind momma's skirt.

But I guess having resentment is enough to crush those Ruskies.
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Like they did yesterday?

Do you even know what Article 4 is? It's a discussion of NATO members about matters of security. A discussion.

They were hit by someone, that's worthy of a discussion without you trying to conspiracy your way into making a discussion more than it is.

Unless you are saying Poland false flagged themselves, which would be a new arguement.
 
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#51,245
#51,245
Rasputin_Vol said:
This is likely the only truthful thing I read in this post.

Also, did you just out your friends and say that we have US boots on the ground in Ukraine?
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They are US citizens same as you or I. They are not in the armed forces. We've known Americans were on the ground in Ukraine fighting since March. I'm outing no one.
 
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#51,246
#51,246
NorthDallas40 said:
Honestly it’s all up in the air now about exactly how many missiles were involved in the strike. The only verified thing I could find was a local saying they heard a loud whoosh overhead followed by a window shattering and ground shaking explosion
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Yeah, lots of assumptions flying around right now.
 
#51,247
#51,247
KB5252 said:
I don't care about any of those examples. We are taking about Russia and Ukraine.

If you want to have a whataboutisms debate then start a thread.
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Well of course you don't care about them. That makes it inconvenient for you to clutch pearls over this situation while not losing a night's sleep over the things that we did.

You guys clearly use double standards. America is good and righteous when we do it. Russia/China/Country X is evil if they do it.
 
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#51,248
#51,248
Rasputin_Vol said:
Well of course you don't care about them. That makes it inconvenient for you to clutch pearls over this situation while not losing a night's sleep over the things that we did.

You guys clearly use double standards. America is good and righteous when we do it. Russia/China/Country X is evil if they do it.
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As do you..... What's the point?

As I said before, of you want to have a debate for whataboutisms start a thread. This is about Ukraine and Russia. Let's keep it on topic.
 
#51,249
#51,249
LouderVol said:
Yeah, lots of assumptions flying around right now.
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I posted a link from an AP article stating both Poland and NATO have definitively stated the particular missile debris recovered from Poland originated from a Ukrainian S-300 air defense missile fired at a Russian cruise missile. I’ll speculate that references the AWACS data showing the missile track which was reported yesterday.
 
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#51,250
#51,250
Rasputin_Vol said:
How do you call it a stalemate when Russia has re-instated 20% of country? And Polish mercenaries are dying by the boatloads right now in Ukraine.
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Lol.

When was the last time Russia was taking more land they were losing? A stalemate is a point in time, it doesnt apply to the entire conflict.

WW1 was largely a stalemate even though the Germans held a bunch of French territory since near the start of the war. Again you just latch onto whatever convoluted statements or arguments you can make without applying any critical thinking to the matter, or at the very least are displaying a remarkable lack of military knowledge.
 
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