War in Ukraine

#51,676
#51,676
Rasputin_Vol said:
20 years ago, they said the same about the Chechens.
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Weird that you dont jump on that obvious conspiracy.

Putin is losing the election. A very questionable, read false flag, event happens regarding chechens. Putin is all over it, read he had a hand in it, and gains popularity and keeps his seat. Shortly there after the "bad" guys get a new leader. And shortly after that the new leader and Putin become best buds. And now that same group is Putins right hand in questionable deniable business the world over.

Awfully convient for Putin how everything just worked out for him.
 
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#51,677
#51,677
tvolsfan said:
I’m not sure if you’re missing the point on purpose to start an argument. You asked for examples. You were provided with examples. I’ve made it clear how different those countries are from Afghanistan and Iraq.
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What is your point? 2 examples vs a dozen failures. Nation building is a bad idea.
 
#51,678
#51,678
Rasputin_Vol said:
No, you are missing the point in two ways. First, if ethnic nationalities mattered so much, then Ukraine wouldn't have been cobbled together with Poles and Hungarians in the west and Russians in the east and Black Sea coast. Secondly, just like those Middle East countries were drawn up by outside colonial powers, Ukraine was created by a regional power.

Do you know Russian history? Or history in general when it comes to Sykes-Picot?
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The parts that are now Ukraine are and were majority Ukrainians. Every border would have to be gerrymandered to hell and back to try and figure out each little village's ethnicity. So yes Ukraine includes people from its surrounding neighbors. Just like every nation. No idea why you think it invalidates Ukraine.
 
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#51,679
#51,679
LouderVol said:
The parts that are now Ukraine are and were majority Ukrainians. Every border would have to be gerrymandered to hell and back to try and figure out each little village's ethnicity. So yes Ukraine includes people from its surrounding neighbors. Just like every nation. No idea why you think it invalidates Ukraine.
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Just him throwing random historical events against the wall and hoping we are all as uninformed as the Russian population.
 
#51,680
#51,680
Rasputin_Vol said:
What is your point? 2 examples vs a dozen failures. Nation building is a bad idea.
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When you have to build the concept of the nation, sure. When there is a strong concept of a nation and national willingness to allow outside help, there have been clear success stories, and it’s good that we helped in those cases.
 
#51,681
#51,681
Rasputin_Vol said:
20 years ago, they said the same about the Chechens.
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The Chechens are far from a galvanized people under Kadyrov. In fact many despise him, some even went to Ukraine to fight against him and Russia.

Imagine that, a group of people who hate Putin and Russia so intensely they would travel to another country just to fight against him there.
 
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#51,685
#51,685
KB5252 said:
The Chechens are far from a galvanized people under Kadyrov. In fact many despise him, some even went to Ukraine to fight against him and Russia.

Imagine that, a group of people who hate Putin and Russia so intensely they would travel to another country just to fight against him there.
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There are always those contrarians. Lets not make the exception as the rule.
 
#51,686
#51,686
tvolsfan said:
Just him throwing random historical events against the wall and hoping we are all as uninformed as the Russian population.
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Those historical events are used to make the apples-to-apples comparison of the ridiculous arguments you all pull out of your arse. Again, intellectually dishonesty on you guys part.
 
#51,687
#51,687
tvolsfan said:
Just him throwing random historical events against the wall and hoping we are all as uninformed as the Russian population.
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Yeah it's been pointed out time and again that even these eastern most provinces were a pretty heavy majority Ukrainian. I think the least Ukrainian was 58% Ukraine, upper 30s Russians, and the rest were mixed.

But in Ras's nation of 1 concept Russia is justified invading any city block that houses a Russian.
 
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#51,688
#51,688
tvolsfan said:
When you have to build the concept of the nation, sure. When there is a strong concept of a nation and national willingness to allow outside help, there have been clear success stories, and it’s good that we helped in those cases.
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Hey, genius, let me ask something. Why don't we mind our ******* business, bring our troops home and build the nation we already have established in this hemisphere? Just a thought. We could take the money used to destroy and rebuild these sh*thole countries on the other side of the globe and nation build right here at home.
 
#51,690
#51,690
Rasputin_Vol said:
There are always those contrarians. Lets not make the exception as the rule.
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How many would you say support Putin? I mean he has a 10k man army. Would you say 50%, more, less?

It is a complicated thing, the history with the Chechens. The war. Many Chechens will never forgive Russia and Putin. Some were bought off like Kadyrov and given status and power. But make no mistake Kadyrov has rivals.... He just has more power than they do right now because of the money Putin keeps flowing to them. But that money is drying up. What happens when Putin can't pay the mortgage on his Chechen army any longer?


And Kadyrov is somewhat of a problem for Putin strategically, as his chief purveyor of violence and hit squad in Turkey and Syria he's a diplomatic Pandora's box, a wild card that can hurt or help you in any given situation. Especially in an ever increasingly complicated region.
 
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#51,691
#51,691
KB5252 said:
How many would you say support Putin? I mean he has a 10k man army. Would you say 50%, more, less?

It is a complicated thing, the history with the Chechens. The war. Many Chechens will never forgive Russia and Putin. Some we're bought off like Kadyrov and given status and power. But make no mistake Kadyrov has rivals.... He just had more power than they do right now because of the money Putin keeps flowing to them. But that money is drying up. What happens when Putin can't pay the mortgage on his Chechen army any longer?
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You say "many", yet you offer no context to what that number is. Hell, it could be 20-25%. It could even be 50%. Have you shown the numbers are are you just hoping and coping right now?
 
#51,692
#51,692
KB5252 said:
It is a complicated thing, the history with the Chechens. The war. Many Chechens will never forgive Russia and Putin. Some were bought off like Kadyrov and given status and power. But make no mistake Kadyrov has rivals.... He just has more power than they do right now because of the money Putin keeps flowing to them. But that money is drying up. What happens when Putin can't pay the mortgage on his Chechen army any longer?
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WTF are you talking about?

KB5252 said:
And Kadyrov is somewhat of a problem for Putin strategically, as his chief purveyor of violence and hit squad in Turkey and Syria he's a diplomatic Pandora's box, a wild card that can hurt or help you in any given situation. Especially in an ever increasingly complicated region.
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Yeah, increasingly complicated thanks in part to the US being involved in Syria and Ukraine when we have no business stirring up things halfway around the globe.
 
#51,693
#51,693
Rasputin_Vol said:
You say "many", yet you offer no context to what that number is. Hell, it could be 20-25%. It could even be 50%. Have you shown the numbers are are you just hoping and coping right now?
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I don't know the numbers, that's why I asked. I followed the Chechen war as it was going on. What I noticed is that it very closely resembled some of the conflicts in the middle east in that the Chechens followed regional warlords/leaders.

Kadyrov emerged from that fray as the defacto leader after killing off and or ordering hits on some of his rivals. Kadyrov is a polarizing figure, even among Chechens.
 
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#51,694
#51,694
Rasputin_Vol said:
WTF are you talking about?


Yeah, increasingly complicated thanks in part to the US being involved in Syria and Ukraine when we have no business stirring up things halfway around the globe.
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Money isn't flowing as it once was. Russia has to equip and pay it's regular army of newly conscripted 300k plus support these personell. Early word is there is difficulty/delays paying them.



Russia has no business in Syria either.
 
#51,697
#51,697
Rasputin_Vol said:
Hey, genius, let me ask something. Why don't we mind our ******* business, bring our troops home and build the nation we already have established in this hemisphere? Just a thought. We could take the money used to destroy and rebuild these sh*thole countries on the other side of the globe and nation build right here at home.
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Yeah, none of that applies to Germany or Japan, but keep screeching, I guess. I know how upsetting our success in democratizing those countries must be to Russophiles.
 
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#51,698
#51,698
Rasputin_Vol said:
Those historical events are used to make the apples-to-apples comparison of the ridiculous arguments you all pull out of your arse. Again, intellectually dishonesty on you guys part.
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Uh, no they’re being made to sling a bunch of **** against the wall and make us throw our hands up and give up. Ukrainians are nothing like the tribes of Afghanistan or in the Middle East arbitrarily grouped together.

The funny thing is nothing has unified Ukrainians like Russian barbarism. Ukrainian identity is stronger than ever. Smooth move, Vova.
 
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#51,699
#51,699
KB5252 said:
Money isn't flowing as it once was. Russia has to equip and pay it's regular army of newly conscripted 300k plus support these personell. Early word is there is difficulty/delays paying them.



Russia has no business in Syria either.
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Russia was invited to Syria... The US was not.

And I'm sure there may be a few anecdotal difficulties or delays, but I think you may be blowing it a bit out of proportion. Where are you getting your info about these difficulties?
 
#51,700
#51,700
tvolsfan said:
Yeah, none of that applies to Germany or Japan, but keep screeching, I guess. I know how upsetting our success in democratizing those countries must be to Russophiles.
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No no, I gave you Germany and Japan, so there is no need to further include them in the discussion. I'm asking about the other nation building/regime change operations that we have engaged in in the past several decades. And I'm asking you why we don't worry ourselves about things that need to be rebuilt here at home instead of overseas?
 
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