War in Ukraine

#58,727
#58,727
NorthDallas40 said:
Puddinhead was already going to Poland on a multi day visit. It sounds like this was a fairly quick change done for a rail day trip to Kyiv. I’m not sure it really makes a lot of risk/reward sense as we aren’t actively controlling the battle space (and I hope we never do) but it’s rather moot now as it’s over.
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Puddinhead getting himself blown away might be seen as a win/win proposition ... except for that next thing waiting in the wings.
 
#58,728
#58,728
AM64 said:
Puddinhead getting himself blown away might be seen as a win/win proposition ... except for that next thing waiting in the wings.
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Yeah I wasn’t gonna go there. I won’t mourn his death when that day comes however if it was the result of a purposeful direct action by another sovereign nation my expectation would be an immediate declaration of war against that nation. There is no other option I can see to take. Even for Puddinhead’s completely worthless ass
 
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#58,729
#58,729
AM64 said:
Puddinhead getting himself blown away might be seen as a win/win proposition ... except for that next thing waiting in the wings.
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From one report I saw today, we apparently told Russia he was coming, so they wouldn't inadvertently start WW3 if they accidentally dropped a cruise missile on Biden's head.
 
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#58,730
#58,730
Septic said:
No, I'm suggesting there were likely many American's who didn't care that Germany invaded Poland in 1939.

Your comments are puzzling because you have the advantage of knowing that history tends to repeat itself and how unprovoked aggression in Europe going unchecked is not a good idea.
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I'm sure a great many people didn't care that Germany invaded Poland in 1939 but there is a world of difference between 1939 and now. Most European nations played lip service or flat out ignored military readiness after WWI, it was the war to end all wars remember. Manufacturing capability outside of Germany was minuscule and most of Europe was broke with the depression. Today western Europe who is threatened by the invasion of Ukraine has the means to supply Ukraine with weapons and material either from in-house sources or purchasing them from us. European energy policies are largely to blame for Russia having the means to stage the invasion and Russia hasn't attacked a NATO member so we have no obligation to fund it's opposition and we are in little danger from it.

It's a Europe problem so let them pay for it.
 
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#58,731
#58,731
Last I remember the European continent destroyed itself and led to American prosperity like never before. Of course we had a massive industrial output and needed someone to buy our mfg products..not so much today, but they would still have to buy our food.
Macabre thought, but sitting on sidelines would benefit America. Just like the CCP today.

One could argue that if Russia cannot take Ukraine, then are they even a threat to the EU and NATO in first place? Germany and Tokyo were world military powers that annexed most of Europe and China and SE Asia.

I fail to see how it is of any benefit to the USA..but we made a "commitment". Supply some weapons..but at some point one needs a monetary exit strategy.
 
#58,732
#58,732
hog88 said:
I'm sure a great many people didn't care that Germany invaded Poland in 1939 but there is a world of difference between 1939 and now. Most European nations played lip service or flat out ignored military readiness after WWI, it was the war to end all wars remember. Manufacturing capability outside of Germany was minuscule and most of Europe was broke with the depression. Today western Europe who is threatened by the invasion of Ukraine has the means to supply Ukraine with weapons and material either from in-house sources or purchasing them from us. European energy policies are largely to blame for Russia having the means to stage the invasion and Russia hasn't attacked a NATO member so we have no obligation to fund it's opposition and we are in little danger from it.

It's a Europe problem so let them pay for it.
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Just said same thing
 
#58,733
#58,733
hog88 said:
How is that belief contradictory to not supporting billions in aid to Ukraine?
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I thought it was pretty evident. Those who like to thump their chests about how great 'Merica, in my experience, are the ones least likely to want to make the sacrifices necessary to claim the title.

Apparently you'd sacrifice European security and destabilization and allow thousands to be killed because our deficit might grow at a little faster rate. I think that's sad. It seems like the deficit only becomes a problem when it's politically expedient or a talking point is needed.
 
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#58,734
#58,734
AM64 said:
Puddinhead getting himself blown away might be seen as a win/win proposition ... except for that next thing waiting in the wings.
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Oh and on the waiting in the wings part… dear Lord. I hope Puddinhead has a most healthy and very fit life for whatever term he has left in office. I don’t even want to think about the alternative and how much worse it can get 😖
 
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#58,735
#58,735
Septic said:
I thought it was pretty evident. Those who like to thump their chests about how great 'Merica, in my experience, are the ones least likely to want to make the sacrifices necessary to claim the title.

Apparently you'd sacrifice European security and destabilization and allow thousands to be killed because our deficit might grow at a little faster rate. I think that's sad. It seems like the deficit only become a problem when it's politically expedient or a talking point is needed.
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That's an intellectually deficient take.

There are many things that make America great without being the worlds piggy bank. Europe and their idiotic energy policies are largely to blame for what's going on over there so let them foot the bill. Sure we need to increase our readiness in case Putin goes completely insane and attacks a NATO country and we're obligated to act but until then why should we be mortgaging our country in support of some of the most ungrateful people on earth?
 
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#58,738
#58,738
hog88 said:
That's an intellectually deficient take.

There are many things that make America great without being the worlds piggy bank. Europe and their idiotic energy policies are largely to blame for what's going on over there so let them foot the bill. Sure we need to increase our readiness in case Putin goes completely insane and attacks a NATO country and we're obligated to act but until then why should we be mortgaging our country in support of some of the most ungrateful people on earth?
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The EU has provided more cash to Ukraine than the US has. The U.S. has provided more military equipment than all the rest combined.

Given that the military equipment is being used for its intended purpose without America's sons and daughters in harms way - I find that ratio satisfactory.
 
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#58,739
#58,739
Septic said:
I thought it was pretty evident. Those who like to thump their chests about how great 'Merica, in my experience, are the ones least likely to want to make the sacrifices necessary to claim the title.

Apparently you'd sacrifice European security and destabilization and allow thousands to be killed because our deficit might grow at a little faster rate. I think that's sad. It seems like the deficit only becomes a problem when it's politically expedient or a talking point is needed.
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Why don't we let Europe put their big boy pants on and settle this, since it's in their own continent? I'm sick and tired of endless wars that have been going on for the last 80 years of our history. In fact screw Europe and lets invade Mexico right now and close down their cartels and start turning them into an industrial nation in North America instead of a leach.
 
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#58,740
#58,740
Septic said:
The EU has provided more cash to Ukraine than the US has. The U.S. has provided more military equipment than all the rest combined.

Given that the military equipment is being used for its intended purpose without America's sons and daughters in harms way - I find that ratio satisfactory.
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Got a link?

Edit: I read this and wonder..We are well over $100B in Committed aid so dont know the discrepancy

Ukraine Support Tracker: Europe surpasses the U.S. in total committed aid
 
#58,745
#58,745
VolStrom said:
Why don't we let Europe put their big boy pants on and settle this, since it's in their own continent? I'm sick and tired of endless wars that have been going on for the last 80 years of our history. In fact screw Europe and lets invade Mexico right now and close down their cartels and start turning them into an industrial nation in North America instead of a leach.
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Based on the 20th century the world should be scared shitless at the prospect of Europe settling their own problems. No I don’t want us a bit more involved than we are now, monetarily and goods wise. But that doesn’t mean I think that Europe alone won’t f$&@ this up worse either.
 
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#58,746
#58,746
Septic said:
I thought it was pretty evident. Those who like to thump their chests about how great 'Merica, in my experience, are the ones least likely to want to make the sacrifices necessary to claim the title.

Apparently you'd sacrifice European security and destabilization and allow thousands to be killed because our deficit might grow at a little faster rate. I think that's sad. It seems like the deficit only becomes a problem when it's politically expedient or a talking point is needed.
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I spent 48 months (58 in you count Kosovo, but that was rather boring) in a shithole and lost friends for this country (for nothing). We have no business in most of what we do overseas. We’re bordered by Canada and Mexico, there is no threat to the US. You want to mention nukes, well then the whole world is f’d.
 
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#58,748
#58,748
VolStrom said:
That article was from July of last year.
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I edited.

Found this..

On Ukraine, Europeans are Doing More Than Many Seem to Think

Talking about maturities of financial commitment ..Lord.

Recent developments seem to support this point. In December, the EU announced an €18 billion package to be delivered in monthly installments through 2023 to finance Ukraine’s immediate needs, including “initial support towards sustainable post-war reconstruction,” suggesting more funds will follow. Though much of it will be delivered as loans, the interest on that borrowing is heavily subsidized, and the maturities go up to 35 years, meaning Europeans have committed themselves to paying for the war long into the future. The United States also announced a $45 billion package, but in the context of a divided Congress, these funds are meant to be allocated incrementally, as Congress determines necessary throughout 2023.
 
#58,750
#58,750
Orangeburst said:
I would think $48B from US is a lie. Some semantical has to be involved. 8 month old data though
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I think that is from December not July. The stupid way they do dates and what not. Also the amount of total funds the US has authorized is a good deal more than your article, but the US had only committed around $27B of the funds authorized to date in direct military assistance.

Congress Approved $113 Billion of Aid to Ukraine in 2022 | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
 
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