War in Ukraine

[Rasputin_Vol]

Thank you for that. I am aware of that operation. I’d say they’re pretty good though. I’d take CAG guys any day over a supposed Tier 1 group like Spetsnaz.

But from what I've been told, the problem isn't with the soldiers. It is with the people calling the shots in DC that caused us to lose in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan...

So you need to worry about your leadership, it seems like, not the soldiers.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

But from what I've been told, the problem isn't with the soldiers. It is with the people calling the shots in DC that caused us to lose in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan...

So you need to worry about your leadership, it seems like, not the soldiers.

I don’t really understand the discussion we’re having here. I was pointing out that I thought it was mostly Green Berets or Delta at the embassy. I doubt they’re even fighting . Like @hog88 pointed out, they’re most likely there in an advisory role.

Im also not sure that you have our win loss record correct, but that’s a different discussion.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Thank you for that. I am aware of that operation. I’d say they’re pretty good though. I’d take CAG guys any day over a supposed Tier 1 group like Spetsnaz.

Eagle Claw amplified a long list of glaring deficiencies on coordination between the branches and their individual special forces. The unification of those special forces under one SOCOM command at MacDill is a direct result of that fiasco. Eagle Claw won’t happen again.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

So?

Thread or thimble.

 

[turbovol]

But from what I've been told, the problem isn't with the soldiers. It is with the people calling the shots in DC that caused us to lose in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan...

So you need to worry about your leadership, it seems like, not the soldiers.

Vietnam was not winnable unless the U.S. was prepared to nuke North Vietnam and maybe start a war with China, which was providing aid to NV. In hindsight we should have never gotten involved in Vietnam, of course---we should have learned from the French experience--but those were the days of the "domino theory" and the anti-communist fervor of John Foster Dulles. We eventually saw the writing on the wall and just got out.

We didn't lose Afghanistan or Iraq--we exposed them to how modern, sane, advanced nations operate and eventually decided to leave. The Bush
administration lied to Americans to justify our invasion of Iraq, but roughly 20 years after the ouster of Saddam Hussein Iraq is arguably in a better place. And it's democratic. Our short-term effort at nation-building was rocky and violent and yet seems to have significantly helped that country, though of course there are still many problems. We still have some military bases in Iraq.

Read this story about Iraq and its current president from a month ago. Iraqi president says country now peaceful, life is returning

We entered Afghanistan to get rid of a terrorist hub, did so, and then spent, what, 20 years trying to turn a medieval mudbank into some rudimentary semblance of country. We didn't succeed but weren't going to succeed unless we were prepared to stay in Afghanistan for at least 50 years. We're talking about a culture straight out of the middle ages. I think we should have stayed, FYI. The Taliban is back running the place, girls and women are again suffering under an oppressive Islamic government--but I think our 20-year presence will yet have a positive influence on that place and the Taliban.

 

[hog88]

Operation Eagle Claw - Wikipedia

Operation Eagle Claw, known as Operation Tabas (Persian: عملیات طبس) in Iran, was a failed operation by the United States Armed Forces ordered by U.S. President Jimmy Carter to attempt the rescue of 52 embassy staff held captive at the Embassy of the United States, Tehran on 24 April 1980.

The operation, one of Delta Force's first, encountered many obstacles and failures and was subsequently aborted. Eight helicopters were sent to the first staging area called Desert One, but only five arrived in operational condition. One had encountered hydraulic problems, another was caught in a sand storm, and the third showed signs of a cracked rotor blade. During the operational planning, it was decided that the mission would be aborted if fewer than six helicopters remained operational upon arrival at the Desert One site, despite only four being absolutely necessary. In a move that is still discussed in military circles, the field commanders advised President Carter to abort the mission, which he did.

Bad example, you obviously don’t know the story behind that operation. Delta is not who screwed it up, it was infighting at the flag level insisting their service got a piece of the pie. That was a complete command and control failure.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I don’t really understand the discussion we’re having here. I was pointing out that I thought it was mostly Green Berets our Delta at the embassy. I doubt they’re even fighting . Like @hog88 pointed out, they’re most likely there in an advisory role.

Im also not sure that you have our win loss record correct, but that’s a different discussion.

WTF difference does that make? We are still co-combatants.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Vietnam was not winnable unless the U.S. was prepared to nuke North Vietnam and maybe start a war with China, which was providing aid to NV. In hindsight we should have never gotten involved in Vietnam, of course---we should have learned from the French experience--but those were the days of the "domino theory" and the anti-communist fervor of John Foster Dulles. We eventually saw the writing on the wall and just got out.

We didn't lose Afghanistan or Iraq--we exposed them to how modern, sane, advanced nations operate and eventually decided to leave. The Bush
administration lied to Americans to justify our invasion of Iraq, but roughly 20 years after the ouster of Saddam Hussein Iraq is arguably in a better place. And it's democratic. Our short-term effort at nation-building was rocky and violent and yet seems to have significantly helped that country, though of course there are still many problems. We still have some military bases in Iraq.

Read this story about Iraq and its current president from a month ago. Iraqi president says country now peaceful, life is returning

We entered Afghanistan to get rid of a terrorist hub, did so, and then spent, what, 20 years trying to turn a medieval mudbank into some rudimentary semblance of country. We didn't succeed but weren't going to succeed unless we were prepared to stay in Afghanistan for at least 50 years. We're talking about a culture straight out of the middle ages. I think we should have stayed, FYI. The Taliban is back running the place, girls and women are again suffering under an oppressive Islamic government--but I think our 20-year presence will yet have a positive influence on that place and the Taliban.

WOW... are you serious? Why were we there in the first place?

 

[BreatheUT]

Kirby did confirm today that there was a small presence of military personnel at the US embassy in Kyiv but naturally didn't go into specifics.

Also CNN has found another beheading video by Russian forces.

Timely. Thanks CNN for maintaining the high ground and keeping it objective.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

WTF difference does that make? We are still co-combatants.

I would say that if we have our guys in actual firefights with the Russians and we are killing Russian soldiers that’s a big deal. If the Russians had boots on the ground in Afghanistan (again) and were ambushing US soldiers with the Taliban that would’ve been a big deal. Why is that an odd concept?

 

[scooty_vol]

I mean I'm sure trans men know more about make up than I do. Weightlifters know more about weightlifting. So I'm sure pedophiles know more about abusing children than I do........ Not sure I get your point.

I'm saying he knows more about the Ukraine war than you do.

 

[volfanhill]

I'm saying he knows more about the Ukraine war than you do.

You believing that the guy who can't get a job with legitimate media bc he's a pedo, and is reporting for a agency owned by the Russia government, where it is illegal to be publicly critical of this war is the least surprising thing ever. Guys got to eat. And no U.S. media would give him the time of day. Seems like the perfect person to pedal falsehoods for the bald midget to take advantage of. You do you Happy

 

[NorthDallas40]

I would say that if we have our guys in actual firefights with the Russians and we are killing Russian soldiers that’s a big deal. If the Russians had boots on the ground in Afghanistan (again) and were ambushing US soldiers with the Taliban that would’ve been a big deal. Why is that an odd concept?

Because it doesn’t fit our resident stooge’s narrative that’s why

 

[NorthDallas40]

They got out of the gate quick but had no staying power it appears. Perhaps one day they’ll actually land a cosmonaut on the moon instead of winding up like this. You know the moon? We went there and came back multiple times starting in 1969

 

[volfanhill]

They got out of the gate quick but had no staying power it appears. Perhaps one day they’ll actually land a cosmonaut on the moon instead of winding up like this. You know the moon? We went there and came back multiple times starting in 1969

View attachment 546194

There's a 70% chance Ras doesn't believe we ever made it to the moon

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I would say that if we have our guys in actual firefights with the Russians and we are killing Russian soldiers that’s a big deal. If the Russians had boots on the ground in Afghanistan (again) and were ambushing US soldiers with the Taliban that would’ve been a big deal. Why is that an odd concept?

Why are American troops in Afghanistan?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

 

[Burhead]

Timely. Thanks CNN for maintaining the high ground and keeping it objective.

So your blaming CNN instead of the IS wannabes?

 

[volfanhill]

lol


'Direct ticket to Bakhmut': Russians fear digital draft

 

[KB5252]

I'm saying he knows more about the Ukraine war than you do.

He's a Russian propogandist. And that's ok, but don't pretend he's calling down the middle and reporting just the facts.

 

[AM64]

Hey... Zelensky is this generation's Ngo Dinh Diem... and the Fall of Kyiv will be the next version of the Fall of Saigon and Kabul.

Get your excuses ready.

Other than Zelensky and Diem are/were heads of state; there's virtually nothing in common in who they are and how they handle the office.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Other than Zelensky and Diem are/were heads of state; there's virtually nothing in common in who they are and how they handle the office.

Diem: Supported by the US, was Catholic in a mostly Buddhist country, erratic behavior made it more complicated for the US to support, killed by his own soldiers with the approval of the US
Zelensky: Supported by the US, Jewish in a mostly orthodox Christian country, erratic behavior making it more complicated for the US to support, has "Ukrainian nationalists" standing behind him ready to pounce if he deviates from the script.

 

[tvolsfan]

Diem: Supported by the US, was Catholic in a mostly Buddhist country, erratic behavior made it more complicated for the US to support, killed by his own soldiers with the approval of the US
Zelensky: Supported by the US, Jewish in a mostly orthodox Christian country, erratic behavior making it more complicated for the US to support, has "Ukrainian nationalists" standing behind him ready to pounce if he deviates from the script.

The South Vietnamese hated Diem and the Ukrainians love Zelensky. At least they do now after the bald dwarf decided to invade.

 

[LouderVol]

So we (or NATO) is actively involved in the war? Just because we may (or may not)m have "boots" on the ground, that doesn't mean we are not co-combatants.

no. just like corner men aren't boxing. training and observing is not fighting. unless/until the direct actions of the west lead to direct deaths/destruction we are no co-combatants.

in no war ever have the nations that have trained and armed one side been considered "at war" or a combatant with the other side.