War in Ukraine

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#65,930
Fxsi-I9XgAUsEad
 
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#65,936
#65,936
It's been about 6 months since Zelensky came to visit Pelosi and Kamala and beg for more money and weapons in DC. Its about time for him to make a return visit.
 
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#65,942
Franklin Pierce said:
Call for Putin to be Replaced... on State TV: Extraordinary criticism is levelled at Vladimir on Russian channel for the first time since Ukraine invasion
Bye bye Boris
A Russian politician has launched an extraordinary attack on Vladimir Putin, calling for the despot to be ousted from office and replaced during an appearance on state TV.

Opposition politician Boris Nadezhdin, who has criticised Russia's invasion of Ukraine, said on Russia's NTV channel that Russians must choose a different leader in the country's 2024 elections.

It marked the first time anyone had called for Putin to be replaced on Russian state-approved TV since the war began in February 2022, Britain's Ministry of Defence said.

Call for Putin to be replaced... on state TV: Extraordinary criticism is levelled at Vladimir | Daily Mail Online
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NCFisher said:
I waited for @Rasputin_Vol @volgr @red butler @DonjoVol et al to oblige you but...

What Russophiles are terming Nazis are nationalist (or ultranationalist, as if the base term needs a modifier). The OUN formed in 1929 and split into two cooperative factions of OUN-A and OUN-B, but both focused on an independent nation free from Russian, Polish, Romanian, Lithuanian rule, all of which had attempted to erase Ukraine culture and integrate them into their own including forced resettlement outside Ukraine to disperse them; Ukrainians suffered under them all. The Russian inflicted Holomodor occurred in 1932-1933.

Germany invaded Ukraine in June 1941 and was viewed as a liberating force, and opportunity to rid the territory of Poles, Russians, Romanians, Lithuanians. And Jews, I think to be compliant with Nazi command; I've not found evidence of anti-Jew virulence prior but it wouldn't surprise me as Israel was the answer to anti-Jew sentiment across the whole of Europe. Ukraine had a very large population of Jews. The liberator assumption didn't last long. Stepan Bandera (OUN-B), favorite boogeyman of VN Russophiles and those everywhere, declared Ukraine independent upon Germany's invasion and was promptly arrested in July and transferred to a concentration in September 1941 where he remained until September 1944. Other nationalist leaders such as Melynk (OUN-A) were also imprisoned. Further, between June and August 1941, Germany returned W. Ukraine to Polish administration and former Lithuanian areas to them. The rest fell under Nazi command as Reichskommissariat Ukraine.

With the demise of the USSR, Ukraine became independent. Pro-Russ president Yanukovych was ousted in 2014 in the Maidan protests and 'Revolution of Dignity'. Putin's response was to seed and support separatists in the Donbas region to destabilize and annex the region. Russian forces have been a mixture of resident Russ Ukrainians, mercs, and Russian military.

The UAF have been heavily deployed to the region since. Volunteer nationalist militias, he favorite boogeymen of Russophiles being Azov Battalion, have been part of that fighting force. Azov was created by wealthy Ukrainian interests in 2014 and incorporated into the National Guard that year. A spokesman has stated 15-20% of the battalion have neo-Nazi influence and are predominantly young, impressionable soldiers. Insignia is a mixture of symbolism approximating Nazi symbols, but Slavic and regional cultures and well as nationalist symbols. There is no antisemitic aspect to the battalion, which has support, enlisted, leadership and founding in/from the Jewish community. Putin defenders seem to have forgotten that as a defining mark of Nazism; "but Romas, etc..." - yeah, but above all the Reich pursued the complete erasure of Jews not just from Germany, but the earth.

So the answer is a firm 'No'; what Putin (and Western shills) are fighting against are Ukrainian nationalists who haven't forgotten their suffering under Russia. VN Russophiles, whether of ignorance of malice, toss the term around to shut down examination of the Russian thug's actions and motivations, even as he states he must deNazify the Jewish Ukraine government and Ukrainian culture.

It's farcical that Russia has a moral perch from which to shout "Nazi!" at anyone, Ukraine in particular.
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McDad said:
Have Ukrainian Nazis attacked Russia/have a history of attacking Russia?
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What @NCFisher left out of his rant was the fact that the CIA/US Govt funded Bandera in the 1940s/1950s as they were conducting terror operations in the USSR. So yes, they do have a recent history of attacking Russians/Soviets (with the US as a sponsor).

Ukraine: The CIA’s 75-year-old Proxy

On the occasion of the German invasion of the Soviet Union, the OUN put up posters in the western Ukrainian city of Lvov that read:

Do not throw away your weapons now. Take them in your hands. Destroy the enemy.…People! Know! Moscow, Poland, the Hungarians, the Jews are your enemies. Destroy them!…Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the Heroes! Glory to the Leader! [Bandera]​
Notably, this call for ethnic cleansing does not cite the Germans then occupying Ukraine, yet the fascist and neo-Nazi propagandists who are waging a war in the Donbas region today portray their forebearers as heroes for having defended Ukrainian nationalism from the Soviets and Germany. The Pentagon successfully pressed Congress to lift restrictions on training and providing military assistance to groups, such as the Azov Battalion, that are based on fascist or neo-Nazi ideology.
 
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#65,947
Rasputin_Vol said:
What @NCFisher left out of his rant was the fact that the CIA/US Govt funded Bandera in the 1940s/1950s as they were conducting terror operations in the USSR. So yes, they do have a recent history of attacking Russians/Soviets (with the US as a sponsor).

Ukraine: The CIA’s 75-year-old Proxy

On the occasion of the German invasion of the Soviet Union, the OUN put up posters in the western Ukrainian city of Lvov that read:

Do not throw away your weapons now. Take them in your hands. Destroy the enemy.…People! Know! Moscow, Poland, the Hungarians, the Jews are your enemies. Destroy them!…Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the Heroes! Glory to the Leader! [Bandera]​
Notably, this call for ethnic cleansing does not cite the Germans then occupying Ukraine, yet the fascist and neo-Nazi propagandists who are waging a war in the Donbas region today portray their forebearers as heroes for having defended Ukrainian nationalism from the Soviets and Germany. The Pentagon successfully pressed Congress to lift restrictions on training and providing military assistance to groups, such as the Azov Battalion, that are based on fascist or neo-Nazi ideology.
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I am not moved to justify Russia's advance into sovereign territory because of Nazi attacks 70 to 80 years ago.
You give some evidence of recent and ongoing attacks, I'll reconsider.
 
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#65,948
#65,948
McDad said:
I am not moved to justify Russia's advance into sovereign territory because of Nazi attacks 70 to 80 years ago.
You give some evidence of recent and ongoing attacks, I'll reconsider.
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It wasn't posted to "justify" anything. It was posted to show that these same Nazi collaborators are the ones that the US is funding right now.

If you want my to "justify" what Russia has done, that is a different conversation.
 
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#65,949
Rasputin_Vol said:
It wasn't posted to "justify" anything. It was posted to show that these same Nazi collaborators are the ones that the US is funding right now.

If you want my to "justify" what Russia has done, that is a different conversation.
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So by this "logic", the current Russian Federation, are the same people who allied with the Nazis to invade Poland in 1939, correct?
How Putin is Rehabilitating the Nazi-Soviet Pact
 
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Rasputin_Vol said:
It wasn't posted to "justify" anything. It was posted to show that these same Nazi collaborators are the ones that the US is funding right now.

If you want my to "justify" what Russia has done, that is a different conversation.
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I am easy to convince the USA should be much more isolationist.
I am hard to convince one country should invade another.
 
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