War in Ukraine

#66,227
#66,227
Velo Vol said:
If this is a war of attrition against "NATO," which side has more combined troops planes, tanks, etc.?
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He's trolling.

No rational person thinks that Putin's regime would survive long if NATO brought its military might to bear in a conventional war.

NATO would be in Moscow within a week.
 
#66,233
#66,233
lawgator1 said:
To follow up:

Putin Wants You to Think He’s an Anti-Woke Crusader

This is more manipulation by Putin. Ally himself with Trump, DeSantis, and the GOP and make US support for Ukraine a partisan issue, rather than one of our own national security. This is very consistent with what he's done in the past, especially vis-a-vis Trump.
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You mean convinced idiots like you that something that isnt a particulad threat should be a threat to divide this nation along party lines?
 
#66,234
#66,234
LouderVol said:
You mean convinced idiots like you that something that isnt a particulad threat should be a threat to divide this nation along party lines?
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I don't see a lot of prominent Democrats calling the war a "territorial dispute," as DeSantis did. Or promising that if elected he won't send a dollar more to help defend Ukraine, as Ramaswamy said.

And we see constant efforts to connect pro-Russian positions on the war with GOP politics in general. See e.g. the above twitter post by the anti-woke outfit.

I really think anyone objectively looking at this can see that pro-Russian people or groups are trying mightily to make this partisan and to have Republicans side with Russia.

I'm not saying they have all been paid off to do so, or that they are somehow Putin sympathizers. One naturally wonders if anything Trump took with him might have shed some light on this issue.
 
#66,239
#66,239
lawgator1 said:
I don't see a lot of prominent Democrats calling the war a "territorial dispute," as DeSantis did. Or promising that if elected he won't send a dollar more to help defend Ukraine, as Ramaswamy said.

And we see constant efforts to connect pro-Russian positions on the war with GOP politics in general. See e.g. the above twitter post by the anti-woke outfit.

I really think anyone objectively looking at this can see that pro-Russian people or groups are trying mightily to make this partisan and to have Republicans side with Russia.

I'm not saying they have all been paid off to do so, or that they are somehow Putin sympathizers. One naturally wonders if anything Trump took with him might have shed some light on this issue.
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What the eff does it matter what it's called by Desantis?

And considering we just barely avoided a default, by "only" going an extra 4 trillion in debt, it would be extremely rational to cut off all foreign aid until we figured out our own budget. If you are 31k in debt, and have the creditors after you to take away your entire house, the last thing you should be doing is going across town to give some kid 100 bucks to fight a bully. Yeah you dont like the bully, and the bully is doing a bad thing. But you are already darn close to losing everything yourself, so giving out even 100 bucks is way too much.

The one area Ras is correct is this is turning into another Afghanistan. We shouldnt need to get stuck in for 20 years to finally admit we shouldnt have gotten stuck in 20 years previously in an open ended affair.

ESPECIALLY when we have our own issues at home. It's not Pro Russia to say we need to fix our own problems first. That's just common sense. And failing to fix our own problem is how we ended up nearly defaulting.
 
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#66,240
#66,240
Burhead said:
Yes because its a defensive alliance. Member states can't conduct unilateral action and then fall back on the treaty.
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I believe it’s a grey area. Poland would not be attacking Russia. If sovereign country of Ukraine ask for ground assistance and Poland commits forces then their coming to the aid of a neighboring country which is not Russia. Russia on the other hand broadens the war outside of Ukraine would be the aggressor. This is probably discussed more in detail in article 5 which I am probably wrong, but how I would see it.

Edit: I would see it this way just to end this war in less than 6 months inside Ukraine.
 
#66,243
#66,243
Still can't figure out the dam breach. It seems to be working to Ukraine's favor, but experts are saying it had to be done by internal explosives and the dam was under Russian control.

Seeing reports of Russian soldiers' bodies floating down the river, meaning they didn't warn their own people. Russian defensive positions are being washed out and mines have been seen exploding in the floodwaters. So once the water recedes the Ukrainians will have more maneuvering room.

I mean, can the Russians really be this incompetent? Seriously, this is nuts unless the Russians decided the Ukrainians were about to launch the counteroffensive in the South (rather than the East to cut the land bridge to Crimea) and knew they needed time to reinforce troop levels in the South.
 
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#66,244
#66,244
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
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This has absolutely ZERO to do with "wokeness". Give me a ****ing break.

Is Russia our adversary?

We spent around $22 TRILLION dollars on the cold war - in today's dollars.

Spending $100 billion to actually eviscerate their military now is a stone cold bargain, broseph.

Or maybe you'd prefer we become a bunch of spineless political pussies and just let Russia roll right over Ukraine... just like Neville Chamberlain did with Hitler / Czechoslovakia in the 30s. How'd that work out?

Bottom line: Do you want Ukraine to win or lose? If you want them to win, the US has to pony up.
 
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#66,245
#66,245
WBO said:
Still can't figure out the dam breach. It seems to be working to Ukraine's favor, but experts are saying it had to be done by internal explosives and the dam was under Russian control.

Seeing reports of Russian soldiers' bodies floating down the river, meaning they didn't warn their own people. Russian defensive positions are being washed out and mines have been seen exploding in the floodwaters. So once the water recedes the Ukrainians will have more maneuvering room.

I mean, can the Russians really be this incompetent? Seriously, this is nuts unless the Russians decided the Ukrainians were about to launch the counteroffensive in the South (rather than the East to cut the land bridge to Crimea) and knew they needed time to reinforce troop levels in the South.
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Da
 
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#66,249
#66,249
MontyPython said:
The British Storm Shadow missile has performed remarkably well.

To date, it would appear to have intercepted by Russia exactly never.

Hopefully we'll be sending our ATACMS to Ukraine sooner than later as well.

View attachment 555655
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Take the writing off it and the context away, and it looks remarkably like some new Apple iStylus thingy. But yes, it appears to have performed well so far for sure.

Just wait till they roll out "Snake Eyes" missile, though.
 
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#66,250
#66,250
LouderVol said:
Korea is definitely better thanks to us, the South at least, the ones we helped; you can see what help from the Chinese gets you.
Vietnam is definitely a better place now too,but that is despite what we did.
Iraq has had some improvements, they dont have a leader gassing their own people, and the quality of life for the minorities has gone up considerably. That may be a wash with the violence that came after we left.
Afghanistan it's hard to say one way or the other, doesnt seem like anything really changed.

The outcome for the locals isnt how I would judge worth. The outcome for us is what I would look at. So in that case it would be three no's and a yes, korea being the yes.

But then you also have the butterfly effect, of what happens if we werent involved in all those conflicts? Not just for the locals, but us and the rest of the world. Despite us being in those fights, and many others, the last 70 years since the rise of NATO, and particularly since the 90s, and the fall of the Soviets, you have seen an unprecedented peaceful period. And I think it's impossible to say that if the US wasnt interfering militarily as we were that that peace would have existed. That peace brought stability, trade, exchange of ideas, which definitely helped us.

Our dominance and enforcement of the petrodollars has absolutely increased our quality of life back home. Our money goes farther than it should on the international market which has untold benefits for us. I think you are beginning to see what happens when our dominance slips. I dont think it's a mistake or coincidence that Putin began this under Obama/Biden, and has come in to finish under Biden/Kamala. We are weak on the international front and you saw a hot spot kick off that probably wouldnt had if we were perceived as being strong. And note Ukraine isnt a civil war, this is purely a result of foreign interference.
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Thanks for responding. I should have been more clear as south Korea is the one that is better. Where we differ is that immediately after the Vietnam war there were countless vulnerable people who there's no way to know how things turned out. You are right they are better now but that is despite anything we did. That lost 58,000 Americans for what? $$$ Evil money. I disagree on Iraq because it 100% lead to all of the problems that arose from Isis. Afghanistan was eerily similar to Vietnam. For what? I have no answer for this. Finally I respectfully disagree at least in part on Ukraine being a civil war and maybe it's just semantics. But there are large pockets of Russians that live there. Similar to what Yugoslavia what through.

Have dear friends who were refugees from that disaster. Imagine one day a neighbor you have eaten dinner with countless times all of a sudden are walking down your street with guns and no longer interested in dinner.

Again I appreciate the back and forth but Ukraine is a corrupt place. I can't change that. It doesn't mean I don't have empathy for citizens who are innocent. But this country has way more internal problems that we could make serious inroads on before we get involved in a conflict that could escalate into WWIII involving a man with nuclear capabilities and is at the very least less than trustworthy.
 
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