War in Ukraine

[LouderVol]

Now you know that is BS. Let's see what happens in next year's elections next year and holler back at me.

you mean the one the Chinese have openly been trying to buy/influence the population over? China has been the one restricting more and more Taiwanese people over, using their back door money influence to straight up buy politicians and companies in order to strangle Taiwan if the PRC doesn't get what they want.

China spinning a ‘web’ of influence campaigns to win over Taiwan

“For Xi and the CCP, peaceful unification with Taiwan is the best plan. They also know peaceful reunification will not work if they withdraw PLA’s military actions against Taiwan. That’s why Xi and the CCP never renounce the right to use force,”

What the Chinese are doing is far beyond anything USAID has ever dreamed of. We only provide a carrot, the Chinese are presenting the carrot and the stick.

The only reason peaceful unification has any serious grounds is because the Chinese maintain the threat of violence to push Taiwan in a direction it otherwise wouldn't go. full independence is still the largest preferred push, but when you have the Chinese push/pull of violence on one side and peaceful unification on the other it is presenting a false dichotomy through the media to change the Taiwanese mind.

But as always I am sure you will dismiss that because it isn't the US doing it.

 

[LouderVol]

Hey @Rasputin_Vol...

Serious question: What are you going to do when Russia loses this war? When Putin is dead and Ukraine has thoroughly thrashed the Russian "army", then what?

At that point will you *finally* concede that this whole "special military operation" was a disaster? Or will you just continue on living in your fantasy world?

probably the same thing you will do if Ukraine collapses.

make up excuses and reasons after the fact, while denying any of your previous held beliefs were wrong because of the information you had at the time.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Even Putin isn’t that stupid it would force the intervention of NATO directly into the conflict.

You think NATO intervening is the biggest threat? There is no such thing as a limited nuclear exchange if the US or Russia launches on. It will be the end of life on this planet.

But at the moment, it isn't Russia that is likely to launch a nuke first... they have no reason to. It is the US in desperate attempt to either create a false flag or they have decisionmakers that are crazy enough to think that we can win a nuclear first strike.

 

[LouderVol]

You think NATO intervening is the biggest threat? There is no such thing as a limited nuclear exchange if the US or Russia launches on. It will be the end of life on this planet.

But at the moment, it isn't Russia that is likely to launch a nuke first... they have no reason to. It is the US in desperate attempt to either create a false flag or they have decisionmakers that are crazy enough to think that we can win a nuclear first strike.

a false flag with a nuke wouldn't work. Unless some covert group got in and actually hijacked some Russian nukes to launch. but even still attempting to do that would be messaged very quickly that would cut off any false flag narrative.

like if one of these Belogrod "free Russian" type groups attacked a Russian stockpile of Russian tac nukes it would be on the news as soon as an attack started. looking at Belogrod that was one of the first things brought up how this attack was happening pretty close to a nuclear facility.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I just don't see how he continues to look at this war in black and white terms favoring Russia. He's free to his opinion,but you can't look at this from such a biased perspective. I don't understand it.

It really isn't that hard to see if you have a bit of common sense, have the ability to objective and are not blinded by political ideology or racism.

The fact is that it is clear that the Obama State Department orchestrated a coup in Ukraine in the winter of 2013/2014, armed/trained the Kyiv regime for the 8 years leading up to 02/24/2022, allowed the Kyiv regime to kill and abuse Russian speaking people (and others), negotiated the Minsk ceasefire agreements in bad faith and as we learned over the weekend from Putin, had a signed peace deal in March 2022 that would have ended all of this but we convinced not to come to terms by Boris Johnson (thus proving that Ukraine lost its sovereignty in 2014).

All of these are indisputable facts.

After 02/24/2022, all have to go by in the fog of war is that Russia has reclaimed about 20% of Ukraine and the Kyiv regime and NATO are scrambling for weapons. Common sense says that isn't Kyiv winning.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

a false flag with a nuke wouldn't work. Unless some covert group got in and actually hijacked some Russian nukes to launch. but even still attempting to do that would be messaged very quickly that would cut off any false flag narrative.

like if one of these Belogrod "free Russian" type groups attacked a Russian stockpile of Russian tac nukes it would be on the news as soon as an attack started. looking at Belogrod that was one of the first things brought up how this attack was happening pretty close to a nuclear facility.

The US could give tactical nukes to Ukraine or the very "free Russian" group you are talking about.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Freedom of speech is alive and well in Ukraine...

 

[NorthDallas40]

You think NATO intervening is the biggest threat? There is no such thing as a limited nuclear exchange if the US or Russia launches on. It will be the end of life on this planet.

But at the moment, it isn't Russia that is likely to launch a nuke first... they have no reason to. It is the US in desperate attempt to either create a false flag or they have decisionmakers that are crazy enough to think that we can win a nuclear first strike.

LMFAO you’re just kicking back and typing BS

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

 

[LouderVol]

The US could give tactical nukes to Ukraine or the very "free Russian" group you are talking about.

but they would still have to sneak them into Russia, or Russian held territory, and then be able to launch them at some target worth it. If they just launch a tac nuke at an empty field, no one would buy it was Russia. a tac nuke wouldn't have range to hit most civilian targets that would bring the highest outrage, but I could see a military hospital being targeted to draw some ire. you would thus need people capable of actually doing that. And so far no one has been crazy enough to pull something like that, even during the cold war.

and also I am pretty sure we can tell the source of the nuke based on the radioactive isotopes that result. As I understand it both countries use different nuclear fuel, so using a US weapon wouldn't work.

also you are still clinging to this case of the US wanting to join the war through a false flag, even though we have already debunked a case for Article 5 with those Ukrainian missiles killing a couple Poles. there is no real reason to think we would need to jump to nukes to get involved. Lets go start with something Russia has done on its own, like shooting down a commercial airliner, or killing a whole bunch of hostages, or pull a Putin and bomb a residential apartment tower. that way its believable.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

but they would still have to sneak them into Russia, or Russian held territory, and then be able to launch them at some target worth it. If they just launch a tac nuke at an empty field, no one would buy it was Russia. a tac nuke wouldn't have range to hit most civilian targets that would bring the highest outrage, but I could see a military hospital being targeted to draw some ire. you would thus need people capable of actually doing that. And so far no one has been crazy enough to pull something like that, even during the cold war.

and also I am pretty sure we can tell the source of the nuke based on the radioactive isotopes that result. As I understand it both countries use different nuclear fuel, so using a US weapon wouldn't work.

also you are still clinging to this case of the US wanting to join the war through a false flag, even though we have already debunked a case for Article 5 with those Ukrainian missiles killing a couple Poles. there is no real reason to think we would need to jump to nukes to get involved. Lets go start with something Russia has done on its own, like shooting down a commercial airliner, or killing a whole bunch of hostages, or pull a Putin and bomb a residential apartment tower. that way its believable.

Why would it have be snuck into Russia? The idea of a false flag is to assign blame to the opposing side. So they could easily set off a nuke within Ukraine, such as Kharkiv, for example or somewhere near the contact line. Then they can say "the Russians are getting desperate and resorting to using nukes".

 

[MontyPython]

Who was the dipsh*t here that recently posted that Budanov was dead?

 

[Septic]

I wouldn't want him to disappear. Otherwise, this thread would just be a constant echo chamber. I personally enjoy the back and forth arguments.

I would. He brings nothing of value to the table. Crazy talk isn't worth debating.

 

[Pennheel]

It really isn't that hard to see if you have a bit of common sense, have the ability to objective and are not blinded by political ideology or racism.

The fact is that it is clear that the Obama State Department orchestrated a coup in Ukraine in the winter of 2013/2014, armed/trained the Kyiv regime for the 8 years leading up to 02/24/2022, allowed the Kyiv regime to kill and abuse Russian speaking people (and others), negotiated the Minsk ceasefire agreements in bad faith and as we learned over the weekend from Putin, had a signed peace deal in March 2022 that would have ended all of this but we convinced not to come to terms by Boris Johnson (thus proving that Ukraine lost its sovereignty in 2014).

All of these are indisputable facts.

After 02/24/2022, all have to go by in the fog of war is that Russia has reclaimed about 20% of Ukraine and the Kyiv regime and NATO are scrambling for weapons. Common sense says that isn't Kyiv winning.

Oh, it's nothing political on my part whether it be left or right. Its simply a matter of Russia invading a sovereign nation whether you happen to think it isn't or not. Russia has also been pushed back to controlling 20percent of the country over the past year and a half since the invasion. That's not good if you're Russia. They're nowhere near Kyiv and that's usually a sign of winning a war. The manpower they've lost as well is more than most superpowers would be able to tolerate over a short amount of time.

Like someone else said, while I disagree with most of what you post on here, I welcome/respect your opinion because otherwise it would indeed be an echo chamber.

 

[LouderVol]

Why would it have be snuck into Russia? The idea of a false flag is to assign blame to the opposing side. So they could easily set off a nuke within Ukraine, such as Kharkiv, for example or somewhere near the contact line. Then they can say "the Russians are getting desperate and resorting to using nukes".

I think the unusual delivery method, sans a rocket/missile which would be detected, would raise some red flags. and again the US has already publicly flagged something that could have been used as a false flag. there is no reason to think we will be the ones to false flag in this war.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Oh, it's nothing political on my part whether it be left or right. Its simply a matter of Russia invading a sovereign nation whether you happen to think it isn't or not. Russia has also been pushed back to controlling 20percent of the country over the past year and a half since the invasion. That's not good if you're Russia.

They've held the line stead at 20% for well over a year. Outside of the few territories that were lost in the fall offensive, most of those have been recovered (except near Kharkiv) and they have made gains in other areas in the south.

They're nowhere near Kyiv and that's usually a sign of winning a war. The manpower they've lost as well is more than most superpowers would be able to tolerate over a short amount of time.

3 things:
1. As we learned over the weekend, the Russians pulled out of Kyiv and Chernihiv last March when they thought they had a breakthrough in negotiations. The pull out was a sign of good faith. Then Boris Johnson came in and wrecked the deal.
2. Also, no one (if they are serious) really believes that the Russians were planning on sieging and taking Kyiv with on 40k men. The entire point of that was to have the Ukrainians have to commit resources to Kyiv instead of having them be able to move those extra resources to the Donbas.
3. Russia isn't worried about taking Kyiv, their focus was liberating Donbas and destroying the Kyiv army. Phase one of the conflict was to press the Ukrainians to the negotiating table. That would have worked had it not been for Boris Johnson. Phase two became a battle to destroy the Ukrainian army. Phase three is where we are at now after the mobilization in September where they are now destroying the NATO army. Notice, all of these videos of wrecked equipment isn't the Soviet era equipment that the Ukrainians had at the start of this. Since September, all you are seeing being destroyed now are Western supplied weapons. You need to ask yourself what happened to all of their Soviet era equipment.

Like someone else said, while I disagree with most of what you post on here, I welcome/respect your opinion because otherwise it would indeed be an echo chamber.

I don't mind disagreement... when it is reasonable. But some of these people simply are either ideologically driven (baby boomers that carryover their Cold War biases) or I'm starting to see that they are simply racists that hate Slavs (particularly Russians, Ukrainians, Serbs and Poles), Chinese, etc outside of NATO countries. As Josep Borrel said, the "garden" vs the "jungle".

All the time, I post reasonable facts and conclusions (because in the fog of war, we know truth is the first casualty on both sides) that help me arrive at where I stand. But all these guys come back with is ad hominem attacks, "pootin puppet" or just plain delusions such as "Ukraine is winning", "Russia's economy is tanking" and what not, meanwhile they ignore the fact that it is the Ukrainians and NATO that is begging for weapons and have economies that are on the decline.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I think the unusual delivery method, sans a rocket/missile which would be detected, would raise some red flags. and again the US has already publicly flagged something that could have been used as a false flag. there is no reason to think we will be the ones to false flag in this war.

MH-17, Bucha, Kramatorsk train station, S-300 rocket in Poland, Nordstream pipelines, attack(s) on the Zaporizhia nuclear plant and the Kakhovka Dam... All of these events occurred and were immediately blamed on the Russians. The intent was to clear have a justification to escalate.

 

[KB5252]

You think NATO intervening is the biggest threat? There is no such thing as a limited nuclear exchange if the US or Russia launches on. It will be the end of life on this planet.

But at the moment, it isn't Russia that is likely to launch a nuke first... they have no reason to. It is the US in desperate attempt to either create a false flag or they have decisionmakers that are crazy enough to think that we can win a nuclear first strike.

Russia is the only one that's threatening to use tactical nukes at this point. You seem blissfully unaware of how absurd your posts are.

Sometimes I think you have to be trolling but the veracity with which you state it has me convinced you truly believe what you post.

 

[LouderVol]

They've held the line stead at 20% for well over a year. Outside of the few territories that were lost in the fall offensive, most of those have been recovered (except near Kharkiv) and they have made gains in other areas in the south.



3 things:
1. As we learned over the weekend, the Russians pulled out of Kyiv and Chernihiv last March when they thought they had a breakthrough in negotiations. The pull out was a sign of good faith. Then Boris Johnson came in and wrecked the deal.
2. Also, no one (if they are serious) really believes that the Russians were planning on sieging and taking Kyiv with on 40k men. The entire point of that was to have the Ukrainians have to commit resources to Kyiv instead of having them be able to move those extra resources to the Donbas.
3. Russia isn't worried about taking Kyiv, their focus was liberating Donbas and destroying the Kyiv army. Phase one of the conflict was to press the Ukrainians to the negotiating table. That would have worked had it not been for Boris Johnson. Phase two became a battle to destroy the Ukrainian army. Phase three is where we are at now after the mobilization in September where they are now destroying the NATO army. Notice, all of these videos of wrecked equipment isn't the Soviet era equipment that the Ukrainians had at the start of this. Since September, all you are seeing being destroyed now are Western supplied weapons. You need to ask yourself what happened to all of their Soviet era equipment.


I don't mind disagreement... when it is reasonable. But some of these people simply are either ideologically driven (baby boomers that carryover their Cold War biases) or I'm starting to see that they are simply racists that hate Slavs (particularly Russians, Ukrainians, Serbs and Poles), Chinese, etc outside of NATO countries. As Josep Borrel said, the "garden" vs the "jungle".

All the time, I post reasonable facts and conclusions (because in the fog of war, we know truth is the first casualty on both sides) that help me arrive at where I stand. But all these guys come back with is ad hominem attacks, "pootin puppet" or just plain delusions such as "Ukraine is winning", "Russia's economy is tanking" and what not, meanwhile they ignore the fact that it is the Ukrainians and NATO that is begging for weapons and have economies that are on the decline.

There was consistent fighting along the Russian push towards Kiev. and considering the ongoing fighting elsewhere in the nation its hard to argue "the pause" was because of a good-will ceasefire moment.

and if this document existed for more than a year, why did Russia sit on it, until the next Ukrainian offensive? Sitting on it is already sus, waiting until you are defending against the biggest attack you have yet faced just seems like even more copium.

Russia pushed with "so few troops", it was 1/3 of their total troops at the time, because everyone thought Kiev would just fold, and the Russians severely overestimated how much local support they would have. They didn't think they would have to siege anything, they wouldn't have needed 40k troops if they had local support. If their main goal was to only take Southeast Ukraine, it seems odd to devote so many troops to driving towards Kiev with no plan on achieving anything. At the time the Russians were pushing along the entire border, even from Belarus. So its not like the push towards Kiev was needed to stretch out Ukrainian forces in this "feint" you still claim happened. But that does make a curious point of you having conflicting stances. Was it a feint, as you have long maintained, or was it this war winning push that forced Kiev into an early treaty?

Russia obviously has no qualms calling out Ukraine breaking treaties, perceived or otherwise, with all the Minsk attempts; so why didn't Russia even raise the specter of this peace any time before now?

you do not post reasonable conclusions. In a 14 month war, every single one of your conclusions has been that Russia is winning and this is all going according to plan. Not once did your reasonable conclusion ever once find Russia might have done something wrong, or had something not go smoothly. you are as rational and reasonable as Luther, this is apparently the first war ever where no fault can be found with one side. outstanding really.

and this ignores all the times you have clearly conflicted yourself. first there was all the talk about the Russians fighting the most peaceful war ever, Putin deserved a Nobel prize, the west should learn, only a western strategy would rely on destroying infrastructure. We call you out with all the evidence, and then suddenly a couple months later you are crowing about Russia going in and destroying as much as they can reach, just like we said; but you refuse to admit the change. you just act like you were always right (just like there wasn't going to be an invasion by Russia), despite there being clear evidence in this thread.

 

[LouderVol]

MH-17, Bucha, Kramatorsk train station, S-300 rocket in Poland, Nordstream pipelines, attack(s) on the Zaporizhia nuclear plant and the Kakhovka Dam... All of these events occurred and were immediately blamed on the Russians. The intent was to clear have a justification to escalate.

MH-17 there was video evidence of the Russian operators bragging about shooting down a Ukrainian military jet, despite there being no military jet in the area.
Bucha was definitely the Russians unless the Ukrainians actually took that territory back several days earlier than the Russians left it.
The train station attack was real. I can't remember if thats the one where there were two lines near each other and the missiles damaged both lines, a civilian one and a military one, you know back when you were claiming Russia wasn't hurting any civilians; or if it was the one where Russia denied there was any attack on the station itself despite video evidence.
The Poland missile we absolutely cleared up before that became a big issue, this just shows how much BS you spew to try and claim this as a lie for the west.
Nordstream I still haven't heard a final verdict on. latest seems to be it was Ukraine, I don't remember a lot of international outrage at those pipelines being bombed as a reason to join the war. there was plenty of discussion of who and why, but never should it mean war.
The power plant was held by the Ukrainians and the Russians pushed violently pushed them out despite claiming they wouldn't fight for the power plant, unless this was some deep fake of Ukraine fighting itself, I don't even see how that could be Ukraine.
I haven't seen anything getting anywhere close to showing that it wasn't the Russians at the Dam.

and I know what you are going to say but I have called out Ukraine for their bs and warcrimes. I have brought up at least two cases, staging bodies, and interrogating prisoners in a way that is considered torture, when some of the guys here gleefully posted it. I also still hold by my stance that Russia will win. so your little ad-hominem of Zelensky nut hugging doesn't apply here.

But you apply absolutely zero critical thinking when it comes to Russia. You bought into the western sim cards, when it was clearly the SIms game posted. You most recently bought into a tweet that ended with a winky face emoji, as being serious. No applied critical thinking at all if it comes from a .ru source.

 

[evillawyer]

Hey @Rasputin_Vol, care to lecture us again about Russia having greater free speech than the US?

I do wonder sometimes how much of a dole you're on. I certainly hope you get paid for the nonsense propaganda you bring.

 

[AM64]

a false flag with a nuke wouldn't work. Unless some covert group got in and actually hijacked some Russian nukes to launch. but even still attempting to do that would be messaged very quickly that would cut off any false flag narrative.

like if one of these Belogrod "free Russian" type groups attacked a Russian stockpile of Russian tac nukes it would be on the news as soon as an attack started. looking at Belogrod that was one of the first things brought up how this attack was happening pretty close to a nuclear facility.

Seems like the smart thing for Pootin would be to make sure that Russia's nukes are even more secured than scattering them around, but then not many of his decisions seem to be making much sense.

 

[ButchPlz]

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

View attachment 558226

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Seems like the smart thing for Pootin would be to make sure that Russia's nukes are even more secured than scattering them around, but then not many of his decisions seem to be making much sense.

You're too old to be using "Pootin". Be an adult for once in this thread.