War in Ukraine

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Tennessee congressman, Andy Ogles I think I heard them say is the new chairman of counter terrorism, was on Nashville WTN 99.7 to discuss a number of hot topics related to US security.

One of the things he stated was Russia is advancing on Ukraine. I don't know if it means they are just continuing the fight or if he believes they are slowly winning. If so, it makes you wonder two things: a) have we done enough to help Ukraine turn back Russia or were we giving just enough for this to drag on, b) how much effort have world leaders made to help with a peace deal.

I want to be clear, that I have not been a proponent of the US leading the resources effort of a Eastern Europe conflict but if you're going to provide aid don't slow leak it. However, my contention is there never has been a transparent effort in the public to work toward peace whatever it may look like. I think most of these folks want this war.

I will see if I can find the segment if it's saved on a podcast, but I may put it under the illegal immigration thread because most of it was about the dereliction of duty of Mayorkas who he believes will eventually be impeached. We know the damage is already done there and the Biden Administration has several just like him waiting in the wings.
 
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vols40 said:
Again read what you will. There was a deal. No where in there did he say they would not change the constitution. As for the last two is it possible that this Ukrainian official is still in $hakedown NATO mode? Two weeks ago Z was saying that we just need to fund them until 2025. LMFAO. It's clear that the US and Boris could not have that.
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go watch the full interview and he makes it pretty clear the constitution was never going to be changed.

if the Ukrainian officials were on the take why would they ever be questioning what the West is doing? I would think they would be covering up an equipment problem, and publicly praising each shipment as just what they needed. why would they bring up the peace deal at all since it goes against the West's orders? If the Ukrainians are on the take why are there all the complaints about it really being the west (Biden) taking bribes from Ukraine? I got a hint for you, there are much simpler/easier ways for Biden to launder money than to send it through Ukraine, and get a CUT of it back.

the only way you guys can ever explain it is to go 4 to 5 layers deep in some 4D chess bs, instead of applying Occam's Razor and realizing the much much simpler explanation of it not being the way you WANT it to be.

and its much simpler of story to sell that its just Ukraine bribing the west, through vehicles like Burisma with about half of the children from DC on their board, to get their support. But that's not enough for you guys in your desperation to make the west the bad guys. no no no. the west somehow got Russia to fully invade Ukraine. in order that the west can take their own money. use it to bribe someone else. and then taking SOME of that money back. and all the while doing it through an incredibly public process openly discussed on the news and in Congress. Instead of JUST keeping the money here in the states and funneling it through the typical pork and lobbyists. nope nope nope. instead they are going to take a WHOLE bunch of extra steps, involving multiple foreign and hostile nations AND make sure they get less money back themselves, because of whatever they actually give to Ukraine.
 
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BreatheUT said:
Tennessee congressman, Andy Ogles I think I heard them say is the new chairman of counter terrorism, was on Nashville WTN 99.7 to discuss a number of hot topics related to US security.

One of the things he stated was Russia is advancing on Ukraine. I don't know if it means they are just continuing the fight or if he believes they are slowly winning. If so, it makes you wonder two things: a) have we done enough to help Ukraine turn back Russia or were we giving just enough for this to drag on, b) how much effort have world leaders made to help with a peace deal.

I want to be clear, that I have not been a proponent of the US leading the resources effort of a Eastern Europe conflict but if you're going to provide aid don't slow leak it. However, my contention is there never has been a transparent effort in the public to work toward peace whatever it may look like. I think most of these folks want this war.

I will see if I can find the segment if it's saved on a podcast, but I may put it under the illegal immigration thread because most of it was about the dereliction of duty of Mayorkas who he believes will eventually be impeached. We know the damage is already done there and the Biden Administration has several just like him waiting in the wings.
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the reason there hasn't been big talks for peace is because the Ukrainians themselves are still not supporting peace. the latest polls still show Ukrainians continuing the war until Russia is out of 2013 Ukrainian territory. granted that support is less than it was, but its still the majority. and even some who don't support that extreme have expressed support for continuing the war just with lesser goals.
 
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LouderVol said:
the reason there hasn't been big talks for peace is because the Ukrainians themselves are still not supporting peace. the latest polls still show Ukrainians continuing the war until Russia is out of 2013 Ukrainian territory. granted that support is less than it was, but its still the majority. and even some who don't support that extreme have expressed support for continuing the war just with lesser goals.
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Peace at this point just means Ukraine giving up part of its territory so Russia will go away and leave them alone for awhile. Russia will still be back later, so "peace" would simply be a ceasefire so Russia can regroup and consolidate wins on what they stole from Ukraine to provide a better starting position for round 2. Peace now is a bad deal for Ukraine; if Ukraine feels differently about that, then Ukraine should talk peace; but in the end it should be up to Ukraine.

About the only place Russia hasn't revisited with war is Afghanistan, so they might be a little bit smarter than most of us give them credit for. Anybody who has a smattering of history would have stayed away from Afghanistan in the first place ... and that includes the US. That place typifies the phrase "Stupid is as stupid does."
 
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AM64 said:
Peace at this point just means Ukraine giving up part of its territory so Russia will go away and leave them alone for awhile. Russia will still be back later, so "peace" would simply be a ceasefire so Russia can regroup and consolidate wins on what they stole from Ukraine to provide a better starting position for round 2. Peace now is a bad deal for Ukraine; if Ukraine feels differently about that, then Ukraine should talk peace; but in the end it should be up to Ukraine.

About the only place Russia hasn't revisited with war is Afghanistan, so they might be a little bit smarter than most of us give them credit for. Anybody who has a smattering of history would have stayed away from Afghanistan in the first place ... and that includes the US. That place typifies the phrase "Stupid is as stupid does."
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Russia doesn't share a border with Afghanistan any more. otherwise I would expect them too. they did get involved in Kazakhstan prior to invading Ukraine.
 
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LouderVol said:
Russia doesn't share a border with Afghanistan any more. otherwise I would expect them too. they did get involved in Kazakhstan prior to invading Ukraine.
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That's true; I'd forgotten that Afghanistan is pretty isolated from Russia these days, but it was even more isolated for us. I still think Russia is trying to nibble away at the old Soviet states as a means to gather the footprint necessary to project power. Ukraine and Crimea just happened to be more important than some other places.
 
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AM64 said:
Peace at this point just means Ukraine giving up part of its territory so Russia will go away and leave them alone for awhile. Russia will still be back later, so "peace" would simply be a ceasefire so Russia can regroup and consolidate wins on what they stole from Ukraine to provide a better starting position for round 2.
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Is Russia going to regroup and recapture Kazakhstan? They had to deal with an overthrow in Kazakhstan 6-8 weeks before the SMO in January 2022. So does that mean that Kazakhstan also needs to be shaking in their boots?

AM64 said:
Peace now is a bad deal for Ukraine;
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Just sit back and think about this one comment. Peace is a bad deal... WOW.

AM64 said:
if Ukraine feels differently about that, then Ukraine should talk peace; but in the end it should be up to Ukraine.
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Ukraine had agreed on a peace deal at the end of March 2022 and Boris Johnson flew in to Kyiv and scattered the peace deal and told Zelensky that NATO would support them if they kept fighting.

AM64 said:
About the only place Russia hasn't revisited with war is Afghanistan, so they might be a little bit smarter than most of us give them credit for. Anybody who has a smattering of history would have stayed away from Afghanistan in the first place ... and that includes the US. That place typifies the phrase "Stupid is as stupid does."
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And just like Afghanistan, starting a ground war in Russia is equally as stupid. Yet, NATO seemed to think they would do better than Germany (2X), Napoleon and Poland.
 
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LouderVol said:
go watch the full interview and he makes it pretty clear the constitution was never going to be changed.

if the Ukrainian officials were on the take why would they ever be questioning what the West is doing? I would think they would be covering up an equipment problem, and publicly praising each shipment as just what they needed. why would they bring up the peace deal at all since it goes against the West's orders? If the Ukrainians are on the take why are there all the complaints about it really being the west (Biden) taking bribes from Ukraine? I got a hint for you, there are much simpler/easier ways for Biden to launder money than to send it through Ukraine, and get a CUT of it back.

the only way you guys can ever explain it is to go 4 to 5 layers deep in some 4D chess bs, instead of applying Occam's Razor and realizing the much much simpler explanation of it not being the way you WANT it to be.

and its much simpler of story to sell that its just Ukraine bribing the west, through vehicles like Burisma with about half of the children from DC on their board, to get their support. But that's not enough for you guys in your desperation to make the west the bad guys. no no no. the west somehow got Russia to fully invade Ukraine. in order that the west can take their own money. use it to bribe someone else. and then taking SOME of that money back. and all the while doing it through an incredibly public process openly discussed on the news and in Congress. Instead of JUST keeping the money here in the states and funneling it through the typical pork and lobbyists. nope nope nope. instead they are going to take a WHOLE bunch of extra steps, involving multiple foreign and hostile nations AND make sure they get less money back themselves, because of whatever they actually give to Ukraine.
Click to expand...


Very nice take. Explain why there's no safeguards in place to track US "aid" to Ukraine? Explain how we accidentally sent them $6 billion? I truly appreciate you bearded vol ND40 and others opinions (I disagree but respect that you have the right to your opinion) but my distrust in the people who run our country is as high as my distrust for the media. The final straw was the complete surrender in the GWOT. No one can convince me that completely surrendering and leaving the amount of resources we left weren't intentional. How many trillions of $$$ were pissed away in that war? Seems like we could have eradicated terrorists for much less and got out of there earlier. That's what posed a threat to the United States.

Truly no hard feelings. I just simply don't trust the people in charge. And that goes for people on the left and right. Mitch McConnell Nancy Pelosi they are exactly the same. Most of all they are both the problem.
 
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Rasputin_Vol said:
Is Russia going to regroup and recapture Kazakhstan? They had to deal with an overthrow in Kazakhstan 6-8 weeks before the SMO in January 2022. So does that mean that Kazakhstan also needs to be shaking in their boots?


Just sit back and think about this one comment. Peace is a bad deal... WOW.


Ukraine had agreed on a peace deal at the end of March 2022 and Boris Johnson flew in to Kyiv and scattered the peace deal and told Zelensky that NATO would support them if they kept fighting.


And just like Afghanistan, starting a ground war in Russia is equally as stupid. Yet, NATO seemed to think they would do better than Germany (2X), Napoleon and Poland.
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Russia has successfully been invaded on multiple occasions, and America is much more powerful than all the forces you mentioned, and that's before you include the rest of NATO.

Anyway, it's irrelevant, because NATO has never had plans to invade Russia. That's just Putin's fearmongering.

The rest of your post has been debunked and will be ignored.
 
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tvolsfan said:
Russia has successfully been invaded on multiple occasions, and America is much more powerful than all the forces you mentioned, and that's before you include the rest of NATO.

Anyway, it's irrelevant, because NATO has never had plans to invade Russia. That's just Putin's fearmongering.

The rest of your post has been debunked and will be ignored.
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I have to agree with Ras on anyone getting into a land war in Russia. It's one thing to take part of it in the early stages; as Hitler and Napoleon found out, taking more than a bite is problematic. Russia with or without the old Soviet states is too large a landmass to invade and hold. The US and China are pretty much the same in that respect; it's something that sets the three countries apart from the rest of the world.
 
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AM64 said:
That's true; I'd forgotten that Afghanistan is pretty isolated from Russia these days, but it was even more isolated for us. I still think Russia is trying to nibble away at the old Soviet states as a means to gather the footprint necessary to project power. Ukraine and Crimea just happened to be more important than some other places.
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Kazakhstan is probably the second most important of the satellites, if not the most. easily the biggest by area, and maybe by pop, but not sure on that. Plenty of resources in the area, the Russian space program was down there. a good bit of their more advanced industry and intellectual areas were down there too. I think its still where Russia gets most of its uranium from. also due to its size and location, it is also the gateway to several other satellite nations, and just central Asia.
 
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On our trip one of our diner waiters was Russian and I got to talk to him some. He’s 27, before the war didn’t care either way about Putin but now wishes he was dead. He’s on his second consecutive 8 month contract because he can’t go home, if he does he’ll be arrested and conscripted. Russia won’t let his wife and kid leave the country so even if he could get a visa to get off the ship and take his vacation his family can’t meet him. Said only the damn Muscovites support this war because they don’t have to fight in it.
 
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Rasputin_Vol said:
Is Russia going to regroup and recapture Kazakhstan? They had to deal with an overthrow in Kazakhstan 6-8 weeks before the SMO in January 2022. So does that mean that Kazakhstan also needs to be shaking in their boots?


Just sit back and think about this one comment. Peace is a bad deal... WOW.


Ukraine had agreed on a peace deal at the end of March 2022 and Boris Johnson flew in to Kyiv and scattered the peace deal and told Zelensky that NATO would support them if they kept fighting.


And just like Afghanistan, starting a ground war in Russia is equally as stupid. Yet, NATO seemed to think they would do better than Germany (2X), Napoleon and Poland.
Click to expand...
No they hadn't AGREED to it. there were talks about a peace plan in March 2022. There were SEVERAL things that Ukraine nor Russia would agree to with the plan at the time. otherwise there would have been a signed plan, that is when it is agreed upon.
 
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vols40 said:
Very nice take. Explain why there's no safeguards in place to track US "aid" to Ukraine? Explain how we accidentally sent them $6 billion? I truly appreciate you bearded vol ND40 and others opinions (I disagree but respect that you have the right to your opinion) but my distrust in the people who run our country is as high as my distrust for the media. The final straw was the complete surrender in the GWOT. No one can convince me that completely surrendering and leaving the amount of resources we left weren't intentional. How many trillions of $$$ were pissed away in that war? Seems like we could have eradicated terrorists for much less and got out of there earlier. That's what posed a threat to the United States.

Truly no hard feelings. I just simply don't trust the people in charge. And that goes for people on the left and right. Mitch McConnell Nancy Pelosi they are exactly the same. Most of all they are both the problem.
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we didn't send them an extra 6 billion in money. we sent them a set amount of goods that had a 6 billion dollar bigger price tag than we were told. unless you are talking about a different incident than I am thinking of. if you are talking about that incident we obviously had measures in place, because we caught it. and again there are at least some measures in place because at least some of the leaks have been caught. Remember the Ukrainian aid that ended up in Central America? How did that get debunked? Because we had enough tracking in place. we don't have enough tracking in place to stop all leaks, but thats not a specifically American/Ukrainian problem. every war ever has had money, equipment, weapons go missing. again you have to go four or fives steps extra to try and make us the bad guys when something is just a basic truth.

your distrust shouldn't get in the way of getting some very fundamental basic facts wrong.

I stopped trusting our government long before the end of the WOT. Maybe a year or two after the Patriot Act was passed and 14 y.o. me finally understood the implications of what they did. doesn't mean that literally everything they ever do is some corrupt plan, plenty of just plain old incompetence to go around still. always will be.
 
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Biden Admin Circulates Map In Congress Showing Battleground States Reaping Billions From Ukraine Aid​


The Biden administration circulated graphics around Congress showing battleground states Pennsylvania and Arizona reaping millions as a consequence of U.S. military aid to Ukraine in an apparent bid to bolster Republican support for additional funding.

The graphics show for the first time how much money each state has made from Pentagon investments in their industrial base to supply Ukraine with arms and ammunition for $27 billion, according to Reuters, which first reported the documents. Several GOP members in the states that have allegedly benefited the most have voted against previous Ukraine aid packages and could oppose the $60 billion Ukraine package in the administration’s emergency supplemental funding request.

​
dailycaller.com

Biden Admin Circulates Map In Congress Showing Battleground States Reaping Billions From Ukraine Aid

The Biden administration circulated graphics around Congress showing battleground states Pennsylvania and Arizona reaping millions from U.S. military aid to Ukraine.
dailycaller.com dailycaller.com
 
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