War in Ukraine

#80,076
#80,076
MercyPercy said:
Russia has managed to have their black sea fleet deleted by a country without a navy, never gained air superiority against a country without an airforce, and has barely made any ground after years of stalemating a country with 1/3rd the population and 1/10th the economy.

If NATO is "in for a penny, in for a pound" what does that make Russia with these embarrassments?
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Large naval ships are becoming a thing of the past. Air superiority isn't easy with modern AA. Not sure what is so difficult about all this. Its basically WW1 warfare.

If NATO is "in for a penny, in for a pound" what does that make Russia with these embarrassments?
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Goat herders didn't even have a penny.

You internet warriors make everything seem very easy, the Ukraine isn't going to win on forums. Goat herders didn't have access to the internet for the most part.
 
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#80,077
#80,077
LSU-SIU said:
Large naval ships are becoming a thing of the past. Air superiority isn't easy with modern AA. Not sure what is so difficult about all this. Its basically WW1 warfare.



Goat herders didn't even have a penny.

You internet warriors make everything seem very easy, the Ukraine isn't going to win on forums. Goat herders didn't have access to the internet for the most part.
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It being "basically WW1 warfare" is an incredibly damning indictment of the supposed mighty Russian war machine.
 
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#80,078
#80,078
MercyPercy said:
It being "basically WW1 warfare" is an incredibly damning indictment of the supposed mighty Russian war machine.
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What's your solution? Because the Ukrainians have basically access to U.S. weapon systems.

Its called war, its going to take considerable time to kill all the van prisoners, imo. How long does it take to kill people sitting in ditches, basements, building, and ruins? My suggestion, you should consider the idea of pacing yourself because its going to take time. I said in 2022, this could take a decade or two. Now I believe the pace has quickened, but things can change again to where they are slower.

Maybe you can go over there and tell the Ukrainians how its done? Just imagine, if they had someone smart like you... they would be in Siberia right now and sending me my money back. I'm confused why they're not there right now, they have a big variety of U.S. weapon systems.

Join the Brave

Its not magic, there is no magic. Killing people takes time. Why do you think the U.S. dropped A bombs on Japan? The alternative was years if not decades to kill everyone.

See, what I said from the beginning is going too fast has more risks i.e. overextending. Its best to just destroy the whole country inch by inch. The problem will than probably be solved for considerable time.

Russia has to wipe out the whole country most likely, or it must be assumed that has to happen i.e. lots of time.
 
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#80,080
#80,080
LSU-SIU said:
Large naval ships are becoming a thing of the past. Air superiority isn't easy with modern AA. Not sure what is so difficult about all this. Its basically WW1 warfare.



Goat herders didn't even have a penny.

You internet warriors make everything seem very easy, the Ukraine isn't going to win on forums. Goat herders didn't have access to the internet for the most part.
Click to expand...
Since the US controlled ~99% of the territory against the “goat herders”, shouldn’t Russia at least hold 30% of Ukraine right now? They can barely get past their own border right now.
 
#80,082
#80,082
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#80,083
#80,083
UTFanForLife said:
Since the US controlled ~99% of the territory against the “goat herders”, shouldn’t Russia at least hold 30% of Ukraine right now? They can barely get past their own border right now.
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It would seem like it should have made it easier to kill them. None of this is easy, all you internet warriors need to sign up. The U.S. really never controlled anything, it was an American Illusion. Which is why I say all of the Ukraine will have to be basically destroyed.

It take time to kill people and to destroy a country. Not sure what the difficulty is in this. The Ukrainians are not a few goat herders.

There is nothing easy about any of this, and its a high probability we are closer to the beginning than the end.

I mean, did you guys give an update on how Afghanistan was going everyday? Nope, a bunch of stupid Americans lost their lives for no reason. Bravo. So, let's move on to messing up another part of the world.
 
#80,084
#80,084
LSU-SIU said:
It would seem like it should have made it easier to kill them. None of this is easy, all you internet warriors need to sign up. The U.S. really never controlled anything, it was an American Illusion. Which is why I say all of the Ukraine will have to be basically destroyed.

It take time to kill people and to destroy a country. Not sure what the difficulty is in this. The Ukrainians are not a few goat herders.
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A simple “yeah you’re right and I was wrong” would have sufficed, Charmin 🤡
 
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#80,085
#80,085
MercyPercy said:
Russia has managed to have their black sea fleet deleted by a country without a navy, never gained air superiority against a country without an airforce, and has barely made any ground after years of stalemating a country with 1/3rd the population and 1/10th the economy.

If NATO is "in for a penny, in for a pound" what does that make Russia with these embarrassments?
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NATO will get their azzes handed to them if they even attempted to fight a conventional war against Russia. To believe otherwise is ridiculous.

The West/NATO's only hope is to therefor go nuclear. And if they play that card, we all lose.
 
#80,088
#80,088
UTFanForLife said:
Since the US controlled ~99% of the territory against the “goat herders”, shouldn’t Russia at least hold 30% of Ukraine right now? They can barely get past their own border right now.
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Well if you measure "winning" by the amount of territory gained, you would still be looking foolish. But if you measure victory by men and equipment removed from the battlefield, then you would see that Russia is cakewalking.
 
#80,089
#80,089
Rasputin_Vol said:
Also, hypersonic missiles and FPVs I guess are WWI technology that the US hasn't seemed to get a grasp of.
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Neither has your orc brothers. As has factually been pointed out to you multiple times the Kinzhal is not a hypersonic missile any more than a Patriot is Moe 🤡

And the US was the first to implement FPV armed drone warfare with the MQ-1 Predator.
 
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#80,090
#80,090
Rasputin_Vol said:
NATO will get their azzes handed to them if they even attempted to fight a conventional war against Russia. To believe otherwise is ridiculous.

The West/NATO's only hope is to therefor go nuclear. And if they play that card, we all lose.
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"NATO would get their ass handed to them in conventional warfare"

I assume you are including the USA here considering our military might makes up the vast majority of NATO's might. Pretty wild statement. You believe that if all nuclear weapons disappeared off the planet Russia would be able to crush Europe + the USA? They are struggling with freaking ukraine. Russia does not have the finances or the population.

But that's all moot because nuclear weapons do exist, and no one is signing any "we promise not to use them" deal were we to go to war. The fact is that Putin is the one threatening nuclear force, because outside of ancient soviet equipment that's all they have to beat their chests over. It's all they have to ensure NATO doesn't get directly involved in the fighting (I am NOT saying we should).

"The west's only hope is going nuclear"

Brother there's only one party here who keeps bringing up nukes and it ain't us. That would be your man. They're threatening nukes because they know they would lose a conventional war vs all of NATO.
 
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#80,091
#80,091
Rasputin_Vol said:
Why deviate from what works? The US/The West can't produce more ammo and more "meat". All the US can do is print more money and pump more propaganda.
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Deviate from what works? They thought they would march right to Kiev. Now they're stuck in a "basically WWI" situation? Kiev is still independent? You sound like a parody account on Twitter.
 
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#80,092
#80,092
MercyPercy said:
"NATO would get their ass handed to them in conventional warfare"

I assume you are including the USA here considering our military might makes up the vast majority of NATO's might. Pretty wild statement. You believe that if all nuclear weapons disappeared off the planet Russia would be able to crush Europe + the USA? They are struggling with freaking ukraine. Russia does not have the finances or the population.

But that's all moot because nuclear weapons do exist, and no one is signing any "we promise not to use them" deal were we to go to war. The fact is that Putin is the one threatening nuclear force, because outside of ancient soviet equipment that's all they have to beat their chests over. It's all they have to ensure NATO doesn't get directly involved in the fighting (I am NOT saying we should).

"The west's only hope is going nuclear"

Brother there's only one party here who keeps bringing up nukes and it ain't us. That would be your man. They're threatening nukes because they know they would lose a conventional war vs all of NATO.
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During the 90s, Russia went with a tactical nuclear strategy against NATO if it came to that i.e. they mothballed much of their conventional inventory from what it was. Once Congress found out what was going on than the call was to stop production of conventional forces in mass as well than 911 happened. (pretty convenient timing) Much of the U.S. military is more akin to police since the 90s, imo. Europe doesn't really have much left as far as military.

The production problems with NATO have to do with it dismantling the war machine into a police machine. War between Russia and NATO would eventually go nuclear, but even conventional its hard to see how either side would make significant progress.

Now, if NATO goes into the Ukraine, well, to me that is a whole different story than an all out conventional war with Russia everywhere. You better bring plenty of body bags. Time table would probably be impacted but the result would probably be the same, imo. To be honest, I don't think anyone can really defend the Ukraine at this time.

There are very few instances in all of human history that shows countries or empires conquering large areas, in modern times.... really only Germany has been able to do it and that was limited in duration.
 
#80,093
#80,093
MercyPercy said:
Deviate from what works? They thought they would march right to Kiev. Now they're stuck in a "basically WWI" situation? Kiev is still independent? You sound like a parody account on Twitter.
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Google search yielded this:

But it wasn't supposed to be like this. According to research by the think tank RUSI, when Vladimir Putin began his invasion, he expected to take control of Ukraine within ten days.
 
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#80,095
#80,095
McDad said:
Google search yielded this:

But it wasn't supposed to be like this. According to research by the think tank RUSI, when Vladimir Putin began his invasion, he expected to take control of Ukraine within ten days.
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The hope was that Russia could force the Ukraine into early negotiations which is why they went straight into the capital. Obviously, if there were resistance than you have way overextended the lines.

Seriously doubt anyone thought they could control the Ukraine in 10 days, now hoping you could capture the head of government is a different story.

The gamble lost, they paid the price.

To be honest, that would have been the better outcome for the Ukrainians. Of course, I appreciate my arms and legs.
 
#80,097
#80,097
LSU-SIU said:
The hope was that Russia could force the Ukraine into early negotiations which is why they went straight into the capital. Obviously, if there were resistance than you have way overextended the lines.

Seriously doubt anyone thought they could control the Ukraine in 10 days, now hoping you could capture the head of government is a different story.

The gamble lost, they paid the price.

To be honest, that would have been the better outcome for the Ukrainians. Of course, I appreciate my arms and legs.
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I don't know where you're getting your information.

What I found:
BY DENVER NICKS
SEPTEMBER 2, 2014 6:21 PM EDT
Reports emerged Tuesday that Russian President Vladimir Putin said he could take control of Ukraine’s capital city in as little as two weeks, a remark that escalated already pitched tensions between Russia and the West in the lead-up to NATO’s summit in Wales.
Putin made the incendiary comment in a phone conversation with European Commission President José Manuel Barroso, according to Barroso’s account, published by Italy’s La Repubblica on Monday.
 
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#80,099
#80,099
NorthDallas40 said:
No you’ve implied that the bald dwarf wanted to take Kiev because as any rational person knows if midget Putin really wanted Kiev he’d have it 😬
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Ah. It seems to me (as someone who wants to stay out of the european conflict completely) that we are getting a lot of revisionism related to Russia's original plan and strategy against Ukraine.
 
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#80,100
#80,100
McDad said:
I don't know where you're getting your information.

What I found:
BY DENVER NICKS
SEPTEMBER 2, 2014 6:21 PM EDT
Reports emerged Tuesday that Russian President Vladimir Putin said he could take control of Ukraine’s capital city in as little as two weeks, a remark that escalated already pitched tensions between Russia and the West in the lead-up to NATO’s summit in Wales.
Putin made the incendiary comment in a phone conversation with European Commission President José Manuel Barroso, according to Barroso’s account, published by Italy’s La Repubblica on Monday.
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Its very possible in 2014 that was the case. I'm not sure what your point is.

The hope was to take out the head of government and to force negotiations in 2022, that failed. The price was paid. There is no way the Russians thought they could control the "country" and take "control of the country" in two weeks without cutting off the head.

The hope was to cut off the head of the snake. that didn't happen. There was no way Russia could control the country in two weeks with a military force. The Ukraine is basically the biggest country in Europe. The only way to control the country was by taking out the Comedian.

You are combining two different things. 1.) taking control by taking out the head of government 2.) taking control by military force through the country with the head of government intact

Doing #1 was the hope, that failed. Nobody thought #2, which is what is implied by all these posts on this forum by people.
 
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