War in Ukraine

#80,480
#80,480
MontyPython said:
Curious. So your view is **** Ukraine. Let Russia take it. We shouldn't spend our tax money on its defense.

Am I summarizing your view correctly?
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I am not Ras and LSU who think that Ukraine should let it happen. I am fine if Ukraine wants to stand up for itself. I think its an admirable goal.

I just don't think we should be spending any money, defense dollars, welfare dollars, any dollars on foreign nations while: we have a massive debt and deficit; and while we have our own problems here at home that our politicians are ignoring so they can get on TV and talk about how good they are for giving Ukraine money.

Ukraine falls to about a millionth on my list of US priorities. I would have them in front of Israel if that makes any difference to you. Generalizing but here are a list of my priorities, just as a top ten.

1. Deficit
2. Debt, yes I do think those are two separate issues. fixing one does not inherently fix the other.
3. infrastructure, just the pure physical state it is, yet alone future proofing it.
4. further development of American assets, lithium deposits, nuclear power, heck other power generation ideas. focusing on keeping american jobs in america.
5. Corporations in bed with the government
6. government red tape choking small business and individuals
7. a complete rework of the federal government to solely focus on its stated goals.
8. the border, and a complete rework of immigration. my perfect world would have an efficient of enough immigration system where the same number of immigrants still got into this country, they just do it legally.
9. I would ban political parties.
10. War on Drugs complete rework/abandonment.

if the US had no major issues I would feel much different about us funding foreign wars. I would still be against it, but I would no longer consider it as a failure of our government in their duty to their own people.
 
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#80,482
#80,482
MontyPython said:
It's both, of course. Failed gotcha try on your part though.
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I'm seeking understand and you're already confusing before we've really started.

Are you able to share your thoughts with greater clarity than what you've done so far?
 
#80,483
#80,483
LouderVol said:
I am not Ras and LSU who think that Ukraine should let it happen. I am fine if Ukraine wants to stand up for itself. I think its an admirable goal.

I just don't think we should be spending any money, defense dollars, welfare dollars, any dollars on foreign nations while: we have a massive debt and deficit; and while we have our own problems here at home that our politicians are ignoring so they can get on TV and talk about how good they are for giving Ukraine money.

Ukraine falls to about a millionth on my list of US priorities. I would have them in front of Israel if that makes any difference to you. Generalizing but here are a list of my priorities, just as a top ten.

1. Deficit
2. Debt, yes I do think those are two separate issues. fixing one does not inherently fix the other.
3. infrastructure, just the pure physical state it is, yet alone future proofing it.
4. further development of American assets, lithium deposits, nuclear power, heck other power generation ideas. focusing on keeping american jobs in america.
5. Corporations in bed with the government
6. government red tape choking small business and individuals
7. a complete rework of the federal government to solely focus on its stated goals.
8. the border, and a complete rework of immigration. my perfect world would have an efficient of enough immigration system where the same number of immigrants still got into this country, they just do it legally.
9. I would ban political parties.
10. War on Drugs complete rework/abandonment.

if the US had no major issues I would feel much different about us funding foreign wars. I would still be against it, but I would no longer consider it as a failure of our government in their duty to their own people.
Click to expand...
So let Ukraine fall then.

The whole Cold War effort on our part... The billions of tax dollars spent by Reagan and umpteen other Presidents. Our national policy for decades under Dems and GOP the same. All a waste, huh.

Fortunately, you sir are in a minority. Your naive, shortsighted and self absorbed worldview ain't happening.

Sit back, pop a cold one, and watch your tax dollars at work supporting Ukraine.
 
#80,484
#80,484
McDad said:
I'm seeking understand and you're already confusing before we've really started.

Are you able to share your thoughts with greater clarity than what you've done so far?
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A park has tangible and intangible components. You're smart enough to know that.
 
#80,486
#80,486
McDad said:
You spoke on the tangible, yes?
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The **** dude. The land comprising a park obviously has inherent financial value from which revenue can be derived. But, the value of a park isn't in its value of land or revenue generation capacity, rather it's in its intangible value of being a park - a destination that normal people value for its simple existence.
 
#80,487
#80,487
MontyPython said:
The **** dude. The land comprising a park obviously has inherent financial value from which revenue can be derived. But, the value of a park isn't in its value of land or revenue generation capacity, rather it's in its intangible value of being a park - a destination that normal people value for its simple existence.
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Read this and see if you can understand why you're confusing. You offer a tangible asset initially but now the value is also intangible.
MontyPython said:
Why not?

The government building a natural park is a perfect example. This is an intangible asset. Alternatively, it could build a park featuring working oil derricks and strip mining.

Quality of life.

What kind of world you want to live in?
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How do you define intangible?

MontyPython said:
No physical property.
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It's challenging because I want to discuss the intangible as no ROI (back to your personal finance example) and you want to discuss intangibles as value. I cannot borrow money on an intangible benefit. I could borrow money to build a small tangible asset like a park/playground but could not pay the bank back with an intangible benefit.
 
#80,489
#80,489
MontyPython said:
So let Ukraine fall then.

The whole Cold War effort on our part... The billions of tax dollars spent by Reagan and umpteen other Presidents. Our national policy for decades under Dems and GOP the same. All a waste, huh.

Fortunately, you sir are in a minority. Your naive, shortsighted and self absorbed worldview ain't happening.

Sit back, pop a cold one, and watch your tax dollars at work supporting Ukraine.
Click to expand...
Watch those billions of tax dollars supporting a corrupt dictator. Meanwhile, here in the US, those billions could go to much more important things. But I forgot you are a flaming liberal who bows to your cult leader Biden. So he g to Ella you it’s paramount that we support Ukraine with our money. So you swing on his sack while hollering yes master whatever you say.

You probably think the loser Putin wants to take over the world so we have to do whatever it takes and spend whatever it takes to stop him. Laughable. You and the others that continue to support this crap are beyond pathetic.

I guess sit back and pay yourself in the back for putting the interest of Ukraine above American citizens.
 
#80,490
#80,490
McDad said:
Read this and see if you can understand why you're confusing. You offer a tangible asset initially but now the value is also intangible.


How do you define intangible?



It's challenging because I want to discuss the intangible as no ROI (back to your personal finance example) and you want to discuss intangibles as value. I cannot borrow money on an intangible benefit. I could borrow money to build a small tangible asset like a park/playground but could not pay the bank back with an intangible benefit.
Click to expand...
In the example we're discussing - a park built by the government - the park has both tangible value (land, assets) and intangible value (why people visit parks). This is not confusing.
 
Last edited:
#80,491
#80,491
BigOrangeTrain said:
You probably think the loser Putin wants to take over the world so we have to do whatever it takes and spend whatever it takes to stop him. Laughable. You and the others that continue to support this crap are beyond pathetic.

I guess sit back and pay yourself in the back for putting the interest of Ukraine above American citizens.
Click to expand...
How, exactly, do you know that Putin would stop after conquering Ukraine?
 
#80,492
#80,492
MontyPython said:
So let Ukraine fall then.

The whole Cold War effort on our part... The billions of tax dollars spent by Reagan and umpteen other Presidents. Our national policy for decades under Dems and GOP the same. All a waste, huh.

Fortunately, you sir are in a minority. Your naive, shortsighted and self absorbed worldview ain't happening.

Sit back, pop a cold one, and watch your tax dollars at work supporting Ukraine.
Click to expand...
yeah, I would say it was all a waste. plenty of lives wasted, plenty of money too. it made us a nation that creates our own next enemy. all to justify the continued MIC spending, instead of addressing our own actual problems. you would rather create fictional problems than admit to the real problems we have and the efforts needed to fix them.

Was our Cold War support of Iraq a good idea? We ended up fighting them.
What about Gaddafi? we made sure he was removed later.
What about Afghanistan/Al Qaeda? we ended fighting them.
What about opening up China to the world? that worked out great for us.
How did our Cold War support of the various African warlords work out for us, Niger just kicked us out.
How about all our work in the Banana Republics, that has surely contributed to our immigration problems.
How about when we disarmed Ukraine, that worked out great for them and us right? Russia thanks you for your meddling.

we can still be a world power and not stick our noses into every single conflict the world over.
 
#80,493
#80,493
MontyPython said:
How, exactly, do you know that Putin would stop after conquering Ukraine?
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how do you know that he would attack anyone we should care about? Or even attack anyone else. Ukraine has been humbling for him, and he already had to back down from big scary Azerbaijan; dude knows he can't risk another embarrassment even if he wins.
 
#80,496
#80,496
LouderVol said:
how do you know that he would attack anyone we should care about? Or even attack anyone else. Ukraine has been humbling for him, and he already had to back down from big scary Azerbaijan; dude knows he can't risk another embarrassment even if he wins.
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Russia is fighting in ukraine to be able to sell oil in europe -- green energy is taking a toll on oil profits. Their goal inevitably extends much further west than ukraine. The far right in this country feel the same about oil, which is why another trump presidency is so problematic.
 
#80,497
#80,497
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#80,498
#80,498
jvol1 said:
Russia is fighting in ukraine to be able to sell oil in europe -- green energy is taking a toll on oil profits. Their goal inevitably extends much further west than ukraine. The far right in this country feel the same about oil, which is why another trump presidency is so problematic.
Click to expand...
except for the war he would be selling Russian oil through Ukraine.
 
#80,500
#80,500
jvol1 said:
Russia is fighting in ukraine to be able to sell oil in europe -- green energy is taking a toll on oil profits. Their goal inevitably extends much further west than ukraine. The far right in this country feel the same about oil, which is why another trump presidency is so problematic.
Click to expand...

I've read this like 5 times and I have no idea what you are trying to say. Russia is in the Ukraine for fairly obvious reasons and it doesn't have anything to do with oil.
 
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