War in Ukraine

#80,677
#80,677
LSU-SIU said:
Most people in the United States haven't even been close to Russia. I used to visit the old eastern side of the equation back in the day, and surprisingly it was much nicer than would people thought or claimed. I can't say I visit Russia or anything but I've been trying to educate myself since the ward - youtube is actually fairly good source.

As far as the Russia narrative, "evil", "enemy", "bad guys" - I started rejecting that narrative once I figured out I was being lied to about 25+ years ago. I still find it funny they we keep going back to the worn out troupe.



Now, who are the evil ones them that never did anything to me or the ones that have continuously lied to me.
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I never usually think the people of any country are inherently good or evil......but the governments are a different matter.
 
#80,678
#80,678
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
I never usually think the people of any country are inherently good or evil......but the governments are a different matter.
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I would say in this case the U.S. military briefed (warned) Congress in the mid-90s as to what they were doing and what would happened if they continue this approach. The U.S. continue regardless of the warning from both Russia and the U.S. military, we get the outcome that was predicted. There really isn't anything shocking about this, Russia has been clear to everyone what the problems were.

The Ukrainians will just have to move or die, imo. At least Georgia doesn't appear at the moment to have fallen for U.S.'s trick here. Maybe Georgians will live where Ukrainians will have to die????

Its a pretty clear cut war, and pretty clear where things need to go.

I'm surprised this thread gets much action, not much to talk about for 9 months..... the grind will continue for quite some time.
 
#80,679
#80,679
LSU-SIU said:
Most people in the United States haven't even been close to Russia. I used to visit the old eastern side of the equation back in the day, and surprisingly it was much nicer than would people thought or claimed. I can't say I visit Russia or anything but I've been trying to educate myself since the ward - youtube is actually fairly good source.

As far as the Russia narrative, "evil", "enemy", "bad guys" - I started rejecting that narrative once I figured out I was being lied to about 25+ years ago. I still find it funny they we keep going back to the worn out troupe.



Now, who are the evil ones them that never did anything to me or the ones that have continuously lied to me.
Click to expand...

Paul Newman was speaking about the Soviets shooting down the Korean airliner that killed Larry McDonald and contrasted the reaction to the Israelis shooting down a Libyan airliner.

He must be an antisemite.


Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by two SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired by USS Vincennes, a guided-missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The missiles hit the aircraft, an Airbus A300, while it was flying its usual route over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, shortly after the flight departed its stopover location, Bandar Abbas International Airport. All 290 people on board were killed. The attack occurred during the Iran–Iraq War, which had been continuing for nearly eight years. Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits.
 
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#80,682
#80,682
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
Russia will use Nucelar weapons before it loses it's warm water port....that's just reality, that is not a pro Russian statement..that's called being realistic. I been accused of many things, but never being pro Russian.... lol
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... at which point NATO enters the war and wipes out all Russian forces in Ukraine.

That's just reality, bro.
 
#80,685
#80,685
Hey @Rasputin_Vol, you seemed all gung ho yesterday about going after some folks in the Ukraine foreign volunteers who had committed war crimes against surrendering Russian soldiers. Care to comment on this one?





 
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#80,686
#80,686
evillawyer said:
Hey @Rasputin_Vol, you seemed all gung ho yesterday about going after some folks in the Ukraine foreign volunteers who had committed war crimes against surrendering Russian soldiers. Care to comment on this one?





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All of those people need to start to think about getting out of the country and/or moving west. This isn't really difficult or confusing at this point.
 
#80,687
#80,687
Dmitry Medvedev

July 4 is a holiday for Americans. On this day in 1776, the US Declaration of Independence from the British Empire was adopted. The usual set of entertainments with smoke from barbecue, colorful fireworks and sadly pompous speeches are planned.

Much less and quietly today in America they talk about the Civil War itself, which lasted from 1861 to 1865. Although this is a real historical event, and its results are much more important for the average overseas citizen. Why? Including because the gloomy parallels with today are too visible. Including the "premonition of civil war". It is enough to watch their recent film Civil War. But there are other, also extremely unpleasant associations.

After all, it has become clear to many that the experience of the long confrontation between the northern states of the USA and the Confederacy of the southern (slave-owning) has a lot in common with the Ukrainian conflict. The difference between the North and the South in industrial potential and human resources was about the same as that of Russia and the former Ukraine. At the same time, the ideals of the opponents differed sharply. The Northerners had equality, freedom, one law for all. And the Confederates had inhuman, dense racism. The same foreign bastards as today – as usual, England and France – brazenly and unceremoniously interfered in the course of events, wanting victory for the South. They supported the slave owners in the same way as they are now helping Nazi Kyiv together with the modern USA. The parallels are more than transparent, and therefore unpleasant for the liberal-left establishment that runs the mass media in the USA. The Russian President has even sometimes been compared to Abraham Lincoln in American newspapers. A characteristic headline: “Vladimir Lincoln invaded Ukraine to preserve the unity of the Union.” There are many unpleasant allusions for Washington in the political and diplomatic aspects of the special military operation and the Civil War of the 19th century, as well as in the results of the latter.

As is known, Republican President Lincoln ultimately won. Unlike their leader, the senile Biden's comrades in the Democratic Party have not yet completely lost their memory. They know that Lincoln's struggle has become part of world history. And his name is revered in Europe, Latin America and Africa. And for real merits. And not at all because his portrait adorns banknotes. However, the current buffoons in the White House, like some ordinary Blinken, as well as the sullen old men in the Senate, cannot even dream of this.

The senseless and powerless propaganda of today's White House is also desperately looking for inspiration in history books. They throw out theses that Ukraine is supposedly behaving like Great Britain in 1940-1941. A little man with darting red rat eyes in an untidy green T-shirt is called the new Churchill. They demand that an old man with a half-open mouth, barely able to stand on his feet, become the new Roosevelt, hinting that the future US president will most likely rule in a wheelchair for health reasons. But an old man with dementia is not FDR. That is why the public winces and does not believe. America is a country with a short history, no matter how offensive it may be for Americans, although it also has bright pages. One of them is the Civil War, during which slavery was defeated. It is from this angle that our events should be assessed across the ocean: essentially, a civil war of one people, in which the majority is forced to defend its independence with arms in hand in the fight against the new Nazis, who are again supported by corrupt Europe and the American military-industrial complex. And the result of this war, as in the USA in the 19th century, should be the unification of our country. The revival of Great Russia!

P.S. Hey, Americans! To paraphrase your Trump,
Make Russia Great Again!
 
#80,691
#80,691
I caught up on the thread over the weekend. There are a few posters who claim or imply the US is a fault for the war in Ukraine and that the US is fighting a proxy war using Ukraine as a pawn.
Can we discuss these ideas a bit.

Here is the first paragraph from Wiki:
Relations between Ukraine and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) started in 1991 following Ukraine's independence after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.[1] Ukraine-NATO ties gradually strengthened during the 1990s and 2000s, and Ukraine aimed to eventually join the alliance. Although co-operating with NATO, Ukraine remained a neutral country. After it was attacked by Russia in 2014, Ukraine has increasingly sought NATO membership.

I see the macroscopic view this way:
- Ukraine is an independent / sovereign country.
- Ukraine sought a relationship with NATO.
- America doesn't control NATO.
- Russia invades an independent country.
- Ukraine (Ukrainians) have a right to defend themselves if they want to repel the invasion.
 
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#80,692
#80,692
McDad said:
I caught up on the thread over the weekend. There are a few posters who claim or imply the US is a fault for the war in Ukraine and that the US is fighting a proxy war using Ukraine as a pawn.
Can we discuss these ideas a bit.

Here is the first paragraph from Wiki:
Relations between Ukraine and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) started in 1991 following Ukraine's independence after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.[1] Ukraine-NATO ties gradually strengthened during the 1990s and 2000s, and Ukraine aimed to eventually join the alliance. Although co-operating with NATO, Ukraine remained a neutral country. After it was attacked by Russia in 2014, Ukraine has increasingly sought NATO membership.

I see the macroscopic view this way:
- Ukraine is an independent / sovereign country.
- Ukraine sought a relationship with NATO.
- America doesn't control NATO.
- Russia invades an independent country.
- Ukraine (Ukrainians) have a right to defend themselves if they want to repel the invasion.
Click to expand...

You should probably also link the NATO founding act which was signed not by the USSR, but by the Russian Federation in 1997, whereby Russia agreed that nations had the right to choose their security alliances as they saw fit.
 
#80,693
#80,693
BeardedVol said:
You should probably also link the NATO founding act which was signed not by the USSR, but by the Russian Federation in 1997, whereby Russia agreed that nations had the right to choose their security alliances as they saw fit.
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In reading up on the timeline, it appears Russia has a SOP to sign agreements / negotiations / treaties and then claim they were promised something which doesn't appear in the signed documents.
 
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#80,695
#80,695
McDad said:
I caught up on the thread over the weekend. There are a few posters who claim or imply the US is a fault for the war in Ukraine and that the US is fighting a proxy war using Ukraine as a pawn.
Can we discuss these ideas a bit.

Here is the first paragraph from Wiki:
Relations between Ukraine and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) started in 1991 following Ukraine's independence after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.[1] Ukraine-NATO ties gradually strengthened during the 1990s and 2000s, and Ukraine aimed to eventually join the alliance. Although co-operating with NATO, Ukraine remained a neutral country. After it was attacked by Russia in 2014, Ukraine has increasingly sought NATO membership.

I see the macroscopic view this way:
- Ukraine is an independent / sovereign country.
- Ukraine sought a relationship with NATO.
- America doesn't control NATO.
- Russia invades an independent country.
- Ukraine (Ukrainians) have a right to defend themselves if they want to repel the invasion.
Click to expand...
Oh you’ve done it now 😂
 
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#80,696
#80,696
Ukranian people and not only the Ukrainian government want to join NATO:

From Reuters:
KYIV, Oct 3 [2022] (Reuters) - A record 83% of Ukrainians would like their country to join NATO, a Kyiv-based opinion pollster said on Monday, citing a survey conducted after Kyiv applied to join the military bloc.
The Oct. 1-2 poll of 2,000 respondents by Rating Group was conducted after President Volodymyr Zelenskiy announced on Friday that Ukraine was submitting an expedited application for NATO membership.
Rating Group said the percentage of those supporting NATO membership was the highest ever recorded by a survey in Ukraine. Only 4% said they would vote against joining the bloc and 9% said they would not vote.
 
#80,698
#80,698
McDad said:
In reading up on the timeline, it appears Russia has a SOP to sign agreements / negotiations / treaties and then claim they were promised something which doesn't appear in the signed documents.
Click to expand...
It’s almost like… the Russian bastards are lying sacks of 💩 and shouldn’t be trusted to keep any agreement they make isn’t it?
 
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#80,699
#80,699
McDad said:
I have been stepping into the steaming piles a lot lately.

You're much more involved in the thread compared to me, what are the counterpoints you expect people to make?
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The primary propagandist will likely just play the US coup card … again… and offer up “proof” which has been dismantled in this same thread dozens of times already
 
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#80,700
#80,700
NorthDallas40 said:
It’s almost like… the Russian bastards are lying sacks of 💩 and shouldn’t be trusted to keep any agreement they make isn’t it?
Click to expand...
Looks that way to me, at least where Ukraine and NATO are concerned.

Russia violated the Budapest Memorandum by violating Ukraine's borders with annexation of Crimea.
 
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