War in Ukraine

#80,876
#80,876
NorthDallas40 said:
I’d hate to be a foreign ally and have to deal with us knowing our policy stances can do a 180 every four years but regardless of what our anti American posters say here we do not act the same as a terrorist state like Russia. No we are not peachy to deal with but NO we are not as bad as Russia either. And as I’ve said many times this is why when need to provide assistance to Ukraine in this situation. Because we said in writing we would do so (in my opinion and yes I know how vague and open to interpretation the memorandum is) and we need to keep our word. I wish we had never executed that document however we did. And now the bill has come due.
Click to expand...
I agree with most you've shared. I am more isolationist than you wrt Ukraine assistance. I would rather our assistance be through NATO and be proportional to other NATO member's assistance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NorthDallas40
#80,877
#80,877
McDad said:
I agree with most you've shared. I am more isolationist than you wrt Ukraine assistance. I would rather our assistance be through NATO and be proportional to other NATO member's assistance.
Click to expand...

He works in the MIC, he wants war and a lot of it...
 
#80,879
#80,879
McDad said:
I agree with most you've shared. I am more isolationist than you wrt Ukraine assistance. I would rather our assistance be through NATO and be proportional to other NATO member's assistance.
Click to expand...
Absolutely agree on the latter. We have no business providing guarantees halfway around the world in Europe’s back yard that is their problem. But to sound like a broken record we did! And here we are!

With regard to the memorandum from 1994 we apparently entered into another assistance agreement with them a couple of weeks ago. In my opinion we should have rescinded the 1994 document is doing so because A) it’s duplicitous and B) it’s a REALLY horribly written document
 
  • Like
Reactions: McDad
#80,886
#80,886
NorthDallas40 said:
I’d hate to be a foreign ally and have to deal with us knowing our policy stances can do a 180 every four years but regardless of what our anti American posters say here we do not act the same as a terrorist state like Russia. No we are not peachy to deal with but NO we are not as bad as Russia either. And as I’ve said many times this is why when need to provide assistance to Ukraine in this situation. Because we said in writing we would do so (in my opinion and yes I know how vague and open to interpretation the memorandum is) and we need to keep our word. I wish we had never executed that document however we did. And now the bill has come due.
Click to expand...

The problem is that the John Kirbys, Jake Sullivans, Joe Bidens, Merkels, Scholzs and such of the west, refuse to accept the reality that Putin and his inner circle, do not have the same considerations or concerns as they do. They aren't beholden to public opinion polls, they don't have to worry about other branches of government making inquiries into their actions, and they don't care about human life enough to worry about how many of their own people they lose to attain their goals.

Ultimately, countries like Russia and China cannot be dealt with, the same way that democracies deal with each other. To Putin, if you don't meet his force with a greater force, you are weaker, and you will capitulate as long as he maintains his use of force, which he will continue to do as long as believes that in the end you will capitulate. If we'd cut Russia off when it invaded Georgia in 2008, then Ukraine would not be in this situation, and the west wouldn't be wringing it's hands nonstop for 3 years trying to figure out what is or isn't an "escalation" while Russia intentionally bombs hospitals in two different countries on a regular basis.
www.theglobeandmail.com

Garry Kasparov: ‘The language of strength’ is all Putin understands

Expatriate political dissident and chess icon discusses how he feels about the Russian President
www.theglobeandmail.com www.theglobeandmail.com
 
  • Like
Reactions: NorthDallas40
#80,887
#80,887
BeardedVol said:
The problem is that the John Kirbys, Jake Sullivans, Joe Bidens, Merkels, Scholzs and such of the west, refuse to accept the reality that Putin and his inner circle, do not have the same considerations or concerns as they do. They aren't beholden to public opinion polls, they don't have to worry about other branches of government making inquiries into their actions, and they don't care about human life enough to worry about how many of their own people they lose to attain their goals.

Ultimately, countries like Russia and China cannot be dealt with, the same way that democracies deal with each other. To Putin, if you don't meet his force with a greater force, you are weaker, and you will capitulate as long as he maintains his use of force, which he will continue to do as long as believes that in the end you will capitulate. If we'd cut Russia off when it invaded Georgia in 2008, then Ukraine would not be in this situation, and the west wouldn't be wringing it's hands nonstop for 3 years trying to figure out what is or isn't an "escalation" while Russia intentionally bombs hospitals in two different countries on a regular basis.
www.theglobeandmail.com

Garry Kasparov: ‘The language of strength’ is all Putin understands

Expatriate political dissident and chess icon discusses how he feels about the Russian President
www.theglobeandmail.com www.theglobeandmail.com
Click to expand...
I agree with a lot of this.

You're finally improving as a poster. Well done.
 
#80,888
#80,888
BeardedVol said:
The problem is that the John Kirbys, Jake Sullivans, Joe Bidens, Merkels, Scholzs and such of the west, refuse to accept the reality that Putin and his inner circle, do not have the same considerations or concerns as they do. They aren't beholden to public opinion polls, they don't have to worry about other branches of government making inquiries into their actions, and they don't care about human life enough to worry about how many of their own people they lose to attain their goals.

Ultimately, countries like Russia and China cannot be dealt with, the same way that democracies deal with each other. To Putin, if you don't meet his force with a greater force, you are weaker, and you will capitulate as long as he maintains his use of force, which he will continue to do as long as believes that in the end you will capitulate. If we'd cut Russia off when it invaded Georgia in 2008, then Ukraine would not be in this situation, and the west wouldn't be wringing it's hands nonstop for 3 years trying to figure out what is or isn't an "escalation" while Russia intentionally bombs hospitals in two different countries on a regular basis.
www.theglobeandmail.com

Garry Kasparov: ‘The language of strength’ is all Putin understands

Expatriate political dissident and chess icon discusses how he feels about the Russian President
www.theglobeandmail.com www.theglobeandmail.com
Click to expand...
Agree somewhat. I’d state it more succinctly as diplomacy only works if all parties involved want it to work. And when it doesn’t we aren’t necessarily willing to take responses to the same low level as our geopolitical adversaries, well not in the public view anyway.
 
#80,889
#80,889
GSL3qzlXEAA6KPU
 
#80,890
#80,890

Exclusive: US and Germany foiled Russian plot to Assassinate CEO of arms manufacturer sending weapons to Ukraine​


US intelligence discovered earlier this year that the Russian government planned to assassinate the chief executive of a powerful German arms manufacturer that has been producing artillery shells and military vehicles for Ukraine, according to five US and western officials familiar with the episode.

 
#80,891
#80,891
Franklin Pierce said:

Exclusive: US and Germany foiled Russian plot to Assassinate CEO of arms manufacturer sending weapons to Ukraine​


US intelligence discovered earlier this year that the Russian government planned to assassinate the chief executive of a powerful German arms manufacturer that has been producing artillery shells and military vehicles for Ukraine, according to five US and western officials familiar with the episode.

Click to expand...


Not to worry, Trump will solve it by noon the day after his inauguration.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BeardedVol
#80,894
#80,894
NorthDallas40 said:
I’d hate to be a foreign ally and have to deal with us knowing our policy stances can do a 180 every four years but regardless of what our anti American posters say here we do not act the same as a terrorist state like Russia. No we are not peachy to deal with but NO we are not as bad as Russia either.
Click to expand...
Agf, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, etc might disagree. And those are just the public ones
 
#80,895
#80,895
volinbham said:
Are we making any diplomatic efforts to find a resolution to this conflict? (I think I know the answer)
Click to expand...
Based on Russia’s history of breaking every single diplomatic agreement they made in connection to the current state in Ukraine why would any logical individual think they would abide by another one?

Not saying we shouldn’t try diplomacy should always be a prominent tool to end armed conflicts. Just asking you directly why do you think diplomacy would achieve any lasting peace?
 
#80,897
#80,897
NorthDallas40 said:
Based on Russia’s history of breaking every single diplomatic agreement they made in connection to the current state in Ukraine why would any logical individual think they would abide by another one?

Not saying we shouldn’t try diplomacy should always be a prominent tool to end armed conflicts. Just asking you directly why do you think diplomacy would achieve any lasting peace?
Click to expand...

we don't have lasting peace now - just seems we have completely abandoned something we always do.

take Israel/Palestine - no one believes Hamas will honor a peace deal but we are still trying aggressively to end the current situation diplomatically
 
#80,898
#80,898
volinbham said:
we don't have lasting peace now - just seems we have completely abandoned something we always do.

take Israel/Palestine - no one believes Hamas will honor a peace deal but we are still trying aggressively to end the current situation diplomatically
Click to expand...
Correct we don’t have lasting peace now. That’s because Russia has broken every agreement they’ve made to end aggression. So why do you think they won’t again?

And on bringing in Gaza that’s also a waste of time we both agree Hamas won’t abide and I’d add Israel doesn’t care at this point. But since you acknowledge it’s a waste of time in Gaza and don’t seem to object to my assertion Russia hadn’t abided by any agreement they’ve made yet can you give me a logical reason why we all should believe diplomacy can achieve any meaningful lasting peace in Ukraine?

Keep in mind we have a post up a bit linking to that idiot Medvedev stating on Telegram within about the last 24 hours that any concessions made today do not change Russia’s ultimate goal. The complete annexation of Ukraine.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top