War in Ukraine

#82,026
#82,026
McDad said:
I track with that except for one phrase. "putin would have to go all iin to take/destroy them".

He doesn't have to do anything...he would choose to go all in. Is that what your saying?
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Yes, I believe that he would choose to go all in. I believe that he would have to otherwise he'd lose standing within Russia and probably his office. How would he sell Ukrainian membership in NATO to the Russian people and most importantly to the Russian military when preventing that has been one of his stated reasons for invading.
 
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#82,027
#82,027
hog88 said:
Yes, I believe that he would choose to go all in. I believe that he would have to otherwise he'd lose standing within Russia and probably his office. How would he sell Ukrainian membership in NATO to the Russian people and most importantly to the Russian military when preventing that has been one of his stated reasons for invading.
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Ok. I get where you are.

I see it as his choice as well. I don't see how america is responsible for a war that is putin's choice.

Example: If I sell you a gun and you choose to use it illegally, I don't feel responsible for your choices.
 
#82,028
#82,028
McDad said:
Ok. I get where you are.

I see it as his choice as well. I don't see how america is responsible for a war that is putin's choice.

Example: If I sell you a gun and you choose to use it illegally, I don't feel responsible for your choices.
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We're not responsible for Putin's invasion.
 
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#82,029
#82,029
swampfoxfan said:
Well Donnie is going to end it day one
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I'm not 100% sure on that depending on the definition of "end". I'm having a hard time coming up with a solution which would magically appear to solve this in its entirety, that of course doesn't mean it can't exist... .only I can't think of a simple solution. There is a greater chance of this possibly ending sooner I would think, but not sure there is some easy solution that people are willing to accept.
 
#82,031
#82,031
Wow I am sincere when I say I truly appreciate your respectful well thought out response . Especially since I was giving some Trump hate.

I'm retired Navy, a marine corp service Hospital Corpman. . I've seen the ugly side of war from Vietnam to the first gulf War, I hate war,but willing to serve.l can understand our involvement in the Ukraine. It's Russias' Vietnam, Keeps them broke and lowers thier ability to take up arms against the United States. But , we have a lot of uses for the money we send to the Ukraine .


Personally I don't believe the Ukraine citizens in the war zone would be worse of under Russian rule.

I am hopeful President Trump will end it.
 
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#82,032
#82,032
swampfoxfan said:
Wow I am sincere when I say I truly appreciate your respectful well thought out response . Especially since I was giving some Trump hate.

I'm retired Navy, a marine corp service Hospital Corpman. . I've seen the ugly side of war from Vietnam to the first gulf War, I hate war,but willing to serve.l can understand our involvement in the Ukraine. It's Russias' Vietnam, Keeps them broke and lowers thier ability to take up arms against the United States. But , we have a lot of uses for the money we send to the Ukraine .


Personally I don't believe the Ukraine citizens in the war zone would be as well of under Russian rule.

I am hopeful President Trump will end it.
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Its not, that is the problem. If it were, it wouldn't be a problem.
 
#82,035
#82,035
Volnbeers said:
would love to be able to close this thread now
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I'm not sure its going to be that easy. 🤷‍♂️

777406be-0885-421d-9051-2fa780929ff3_text.gif
 
#82,036
#82,036
hog88 said:
Great, now point to where it specifically mentions Ukraine. PLUS I never said a NATO treaty with Russia, the treaty would be between the US and Russia and NATO would just have to follow our lead.
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Lol, I even pre-emptively highlighted it for you.

1730913357057.png

Does the red circle help, or do you need to refresh yourself on the common definition of the word "all"?
 
#82,039
#82,039
hog88 said:
That is an agreement, not a treaty between Russia and NATO. I'm talking about a treaty between the US and Russia.

That agreement means jack squat.
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So, Putin will be more likely to actually adhere to an agreement, if you call it a treaty?

1730914234273.png

Is there evidence to support this supposition, or is this just something you feel in your heart to be true?
 
#82,041
#82,041
hog88 said:
That is an agreement, not a treaty between Russia and NATO. I'm talking about a treaty between the US and Russia.

That agreement means jack squat.
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If parties can't agree as to why the prior agreements failed or discuss the present situation in context, hard to envision how all that works.
 
#82,042
#82,042
BeardedVol said:
So, Putin will be more likely to actually adhere to an agreement, if you call it a treaty?

View attachment 694765

Is there evidence to support this supposition, or is this just something you feel in your heart to be true?
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I think Putin and more importantly subsequent Russian leaders would be more apt to honor a direct treaty with the US than an agreement with NATO. Putin is 72, he's only got a few more years in the big office.

Let's hear your thoughts on how to end this thing without us going to war?
 
#82,043
#82,043
hog88 said:
I think Putin and more importantly subsequent Russian leaders would be more apt to honor a direct treaty with the US than an agreement with NATO. Putin is 72, he's only got a few more years in the big office.

Let's hear your thoughts on how to end this thing without us going to war?
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Why would they be more likely to honor a Treaty with the US?

What repercussions would you suggest are included in this treaty that would dissuade Putin breaking it?
 
#82,044
#82,044
BeardedVol said:
Why would they be more likely to honor a Treaty with the US?

What repercussions would you suggest are included in this treaty that would dissuade Putin breaking it?
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In writing, clear language that Ukraine would be under our umbrella of protection. Plus Putin wouldn't have time to rebuild and rearm for another invasion before he kicked the bucket.
 
#82,045
#82,045
hog88 said:
In writing, clear language that Ukraine would be under our umbrella of protection. Plus Putin wouldn't have time to rebuild and rearm for another invasion before he kicked the bucket.
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Why in the hell are you now advocating for us sticking our nose more in European affairs?! Once this fiasco is over we need to tell Europe that Europe is a European problem. Ukraine is in or will be in the EU. Let the EU manage and protect the EU. It only interests us if it spreads into the “North Atlantic”. Get it?
 
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#82,046
#82,046
hog88 said:
In writing, clear language that Ukraine would be under our umbrella of protection. Plus Putin wouldn't have time to rebuild and rearm for another invasion before he kicked the bucket.
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So now you are ready to strike a deal with Russia, that obligates US soldiers to be stationed permanently in Ukraine with the expectation that they will defend Ukraine with their lives if Russia treats this treaty with the same disregard that they've treated the majority of the other treaties they've signed?

You're banking on Putin dying before he can rearm, but once sanctions are lifted, which I'm sure that would be the price of any treaty with Russia, there's not much stopping him from maintaining a war-economy and focusing on rearming as a priority.
 
#82,048
#82,048
lukeneyland said:
Cut the funding Ukraine would be forced to negotiate at that point
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Unconditional surrendering you mean? Without huge amounts of money coming in for 10s of years, collapse.

I am a little confused by the comments out here, this is something I have been writing about for 1-2 years.... there is no easy off ramp for the Ukraine or Russia. Maybe the U.S. or West, but not the Ukraine or Russia.
 
#82,049
#82,049
NorthDallas40 said:
Why in the hell are you now advocating for us sticking our nose more in European affairs?! Once this fiasco is over we need to tell Europe that Europe is a European problem. Ukraine is in or will be in the EU. Let the EU manage and protect the EU. It only interests us if it spreads into the “North Atlantic”. Get it?
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Our nose is so far stuck in it now how else do you think we’re gonna get it out?

Ukraine isn’t going to drive the Orcs out so this thing will drag on for another few years and we’ll continue to send them our tax dollars until we the US puts and end to it.

Got a better suggestion?
 
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#82,050
#82,050
BeardedVol said:
So now you are ready to strike a deal with Russia, that obligates US soldiers to be stationed permanently in Ukraine with the expectation that they will defend Ukraine with their lives if Russia treats this treaty with the same disregard that they've treated the majority of the other treaties they've signed?

You're banking on Putin dying before he can rearm, but once sanctions are lifted, which I'm sure that would be the price of any treaty with Russia, there's not much stopping him from maintaining a war-economy and focusing on rearming as a priority.
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Are you obtuse or just cursed with poor reading comprehension. I specifically said any treaty would include absolutely no NATO/US troops on Ukrainian soil.

Come on, lay out your ideas on how to end this thing.
 
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