War in Ukraine

[volbound1700]

We should offer Russia membership in NATO in exchange for ending the war and completely withdrawing from Ukraine.

100%

 

[Orange_Crush]

Seems to be a conflict with negotiations where yesterday Trump stated that Ukraine would be a part of the negotiations. Now Zelensky is stating they knew nothing about the talks in Saudi Arabia and will not recognize any agreement.

I don't see how you can have any negotiations without at least a party or person from Ukraine. If that's what is happening, I don't agree with it.

Eh... Unless it's the US negotiating their own way out of funding the Ukraine side of things.

US and Russia: Meet on terms.
US to Ukraine: It looks like you could end the war with this agreement. You are free to refuse it, but do so knowing that you'll be fighting on someone else's dime. Can't say it's been a pleasure to help you.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Macron’s ‘Emergency’ Ukraine Summit in Paris Fails to Produce Unified European Strategy, as Poles and Germans Balk at Deploying Troops​

Monday’s ’emergency’ meeting in Paris appears to have confirmed the Trump administration’s reluctance to include European leaders in Ukraine peace talks as deep divides remain on Europe’s role in the peace process.

The leaders of eight European nations, alongside two top EU representatives, descended on Paris on Monday for a summit on Ukraine that was hastily organised after U.S. officials at the Munich Security Conference shot down the idea of having the Europeans “at the table” of peace negotiations intended to end the war in Ukraine.

The summit received a boost as British Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer said he would be willing to sign onto President Macron’s plan of deploying European troops to the former Soviet state to act as a buffer against further Russian aggression. Swedish Foreign Minister Maria Malmer also said that her country “does not exclude” the possibility of sending Swedish troops into Ukraine.

Macron's Ukraine Summit Fails to Produce Unified European Strategy

The Paris meeting appears to have validated the Trump administration's reluctance to include European leaders in Ukraine peace talks.

www.breitbart.com

 

[LouderVol]

How about a more accurate analogy?

If your brother invaded part of your father’s estate claiming a misinterpretation of the will. You disagreed which led to you and your brother to start punching each other in the nose.

That is not an accurate analogy at all.

The USSR did not create Ukrainians. At best Russia and Ukraine are cousins. And Russia is the manipulative bully who has profited for decades off of their manipulation of Ukraine.

Russia didn't claim any "misinterpretation" of the 2 or 3 treaties they signed. They just straight up ignored them.

They didn't disagree, Russia just bought off Ukraines lawyer, to try and change the terms that had already been signed. The lawyer got ran off, back to Russia, and the original will and agreements still exist as is.

Russia is pissed about the agreed upon terms and thought they could get away with bullying Ukraine some more.

So Russia just completely fabricated some fear about Ukraine turning their land into a theme park after the theme park turned them down. And is now trying to take over the land by killing off Ukrainians throwing any concept of a disagreement away.

 

[volbound1700]

That is not an accurate analogy at all.

The USSR did not create Ukrainians. At best Russia and Ukraine are cousins. And Russia is the manipulative bully who has profited for decades off of their manipulation of Ukraine.

Russia didn't claim any "misinterpretation" of the 2 or 3 treaties they signed. They just straight up ignored them.

They didn't disagree, Russia just bought off Ukraines lawyer, to try and change the terms that had already been signed. The lawyer got ran off, back to Russia, and the original will and agreements still exist as is.

Russia is pissed about the agreed upon terms and thought they could get away with bullying Ukraine some more.

So Russia just completely fabricated some fear about Ukraine turning their land into a theme park after the theme park turned them down. And is now trying to take over the land by killing off Ukrainians throwing any concept of a disagreement away.

Ukrainians used to be called Ruthenians and you are right, Russia did not create them. In fact, Russians (Muscouvites) came from Ruthenians as Kiev was the principal city in Russia until Mongol invasions and Moscow was a minor town founded by Kievan colonists. Kiev, Smolensk, and Novgorod were the three major cities in Russia prior to Mongol invasions.

Ruthenians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I will say this though, even Russians is a broad term. It includes Muscouvites, Novgorodians, Belorussians, Ryzanians, Permians, etc.

 

[MontyPython]

I’m saying Ukraine and Russia were both part of the Soviet Union who would be the deceased father in my analogy.

So what? Half of the US was once French. Texas belonged to Mexico. Alaska belonged to Russia.

By your logic, Russia could invade Alaska anytime since they once were one.

Your analogy is dogshit.

 

[rekinhavoc]

Macron’s ‘Emergency’ Ukraine Summit in Paris Fails to Produce Unified European Strategy, as Poles and Germans Balk at Deploying Troops​

View attachment 722750

Monday’s ’emergency’ meeting in Paris appears to have confirmed the Trump administration’s reluctance to include European leaders in Ukraine peace talks as deep divides remain on Europe’s role in the peace process.

The leaders of eight European nations, alongside two top EU representatives, descended on Paris on Monday for a summit on Ukraine that was hastily organised after U.S. officials at the Munich Security Conference shot down the idea of having the Europeans “at the table” of peace negotiations intended to end the war in Ukraine.

The summit received a boost as British Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer said he would be willing to sign onto President Macron’s plan of deploying European troops to the former Soviet state to act as a buffer against further Russian aggression. Swedish Foreign Minister Maria Malmer also said that her country “does not exclude” the possibility of sending Swedish troops into Ukraine.

Macron's Ukraine Summit Fails to Produce Unified European Strategy

The Paris meeting appears to have validated the Trump administration's reluctance to include European leaders in Ukraine peace talks.

www.breitbart.com

Russia Says No Territory Surrender as Pre-Negotiation Positioning Begins

Marco Rubio and Sergei Lavrov meet for talks on Ukraine, but even before sitting down Russia demonstrated its hard bargaining mindset.

www.breitbart.com

Lavrov also took the time to nettle European leaders, already reportedly smarting from not being invited to today’s talks, to say there would have been no point asking them to peace talks anyway as their only interest — in his view — is prolonging the war. Lavrov said: “The European philosophy hasn’t gone anywhere so I don’t know what they should do at the negotiating table. If they are going to weasel out some cunning ideas about freezing the conflict — while actually intending, as is their custom, nature, and habit — to continue the war then why should we invite them at all?”.

In other respects, Russia’s concerns appear mirror Ukraine’s, in that it doesn’t want to see a ‘peace’ used as a pretext to re-arm Ukraine for a later resumption of hostilities, Lavrov said. Ukraine has said for weeks it wants any ceasefire to be permanent, with total deterrence of future Russian aggression so they don’t merely use it as time to rebuild their military for a subsequent re-invasion.

 

[BeardedVol]

‘F--- Trump and his deal’: Ukraine’s US veterans rail against peace plan

Veterans fighting for Zelensky’s foreign legion label president a ‘coward’ who won’t stand up to Putin

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[hog88]

‘F--- Trump and his deal’: Ukraine’s US veterans rail against peace plan

Veterans fighting for Zelensky’s foreign legion label president a ‘coward’ who won’t stand up to Putin

www.telegraph.co.uk

Now those are some people that have the right to complain.

But it's ok to disagree with them and I don't think Trump has the power to force Ukraine to stop fighting no matter what deal he gets done with Putin. We just don't have to be the banker for that war.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Now those are some people that have the right to complain.

But it's ok to disagree with them and I don't think Trump has the power to force Ukraine to stop fighting no matter what deal he gets done with Putin. We just don't have to be the banker for that war.

Yes and no, he can basically get them to stop fighting and he has the tools to do it. The problem isn't forcing them to stop fighting, the problem is what do you do with Western Ukraine i.e. long term solution, nobody wants it.

The neocons set this one up very well, same thing I probably said two years ago.... very hard to see an easy off-ramp.

Update: It sounds like the Russians are saying the midget isn't legitimate so elections would have to take place before signing any new agreement as well, but it doesn't even sound like they have a basis for an agreement. They have a framework once a solution has been found to end the conflict.

Nobody is proposing an actual solution which means the meat grinder continues.

 

[ButchPlz]

Now those are some people that have the right to complain.

But it's ok to disagree with them and I don't think Trump has the power to force Ukraine to stop fighting no matter what deal he gets done with Putin. We just don't have to be the banker for that war.

This is precisely the issue. Why do we have to meddle in every conflict? If this war has regional implications let the damn region it's in deal with in. We shouldn't have been anywhere close to this conflict for any reason.

 

[Rocky_Top_Vol13]

 

[LouderVol]

If Trump doesn't believe Europe or the Ukraine are of any help in solving it than why would them be involved. It was my understanding the Ukraine was invited to talks in SA, but not sure they are actually there. Technically, under the Constitution, the Ukraine can't actually settle at this point anyway. The other summit appears to the Orange Man and Da Poootin later in the month, that appears to be just them getting together to start to mend fences.

Europe and the Ukraine really aren't players in any of this if that is what the Orange Man wants. If you allow yourself to be used a pawn, you have limited value.

This can all end whenever the Orange Man wants.

There can't be a peace deal if only one of the nations fighting signs it.

 

[LouderVol]

Ukrainians used to be called Ruthenians and you are right, Russia did not create them. In fact, Russians (Muscouvites) came from Ruthenians as Kiev was the principal city in Russia until Mongol invasions and Moscow was a minor town founded by Kievan colonists. Kiev, Smolensk, and Novgorod were the three major cities in Russia prior to Mongol invasions.

Ruthenians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I will say this though, even Russians is a broad term. It includes Muscouvites, Novgorodians, Belorussians, Ryzanians, Permians, etc.

It's just laughable that they are trying to claim that the USSR created anything in regards to the nation's that came out of it.

The USSR was a clamp that suppressed many different nations, nationalities, ethnicities, and more under one umbrella. Removing that clamp didn't "create" anything.

 

[lawgator1]

Show of hands.

Who thinks Ukraine ought to accept a deal, negotiated without their participation, in which Russia gets to keep the 20 % of Ukrainian territory they currently occupy, and in exchange Russia pinky swears they won't do it again?

Because that's what's coming from Team Trump/Putin.

 

[hog88]

Show of hands.

Who thinks Ukraine ought to accept a deal, negotiated without their participation, in which Russia gets to keep the 20 % of Ukrainian territory they currently occupy, and in exchange Russia pinky swears they won't do it again?

Because that's what's coming from Team Trump/Putin.

Not for me to decide.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Show of hands.

Who thinks Ukraine ought to accept a deal, negotiated without their participation, in which Russia gets to keep the 20 % of Ukrainian territory they currently occupy, and in exchange Russia pinky swears they won't do it again?

Because that's what's coming from Team Trump/Putin.

Well, realistically they are just the pawn in the middle of the war. Nobody cared for them including the people you voted for, which you lied about. It actually sounds like the opposite, they're saying without a duly elected official they can't move forward but the framework is there if someone has a solution once someone is properly elected.

For the most part, as long as my money isn't involved, good.

The Ukrainians don't really mean much.... just pawns, looks like people are trying to save them.

 

[UTFanForLife]

Show of hands.

Who thinks Ukraine ought to accept a deal, negotiated without their participation, in which Russia gets to keep the 20 % of Ukrainian territory they currently occupy, and in exchange Russia pinky swears they won't do it again?

Because that's what's coming from Team Trump/Putin.

I say they can do what they want, and the US can start funding a war on inflation instead of that war.

 

[utvolpj]

Show of hands.

Who thinks Ukraine ought to accept a deal, negotiated without their participation, in which Russia gets to keep the 20 % of Ukrainian territory they currently occupy, and in exchange Russia pinky swears they won't do it again?

Because that's what's coming from Team Trump/Putin.

Same deal they had some time ago that got blown up. Except now they get it with hundreds of thousands fewer males and completely demolished infrastructure. That's what happens when you count on the usa to back you up. Ukraine was the Bamboo Lounge from Goodfellas

 

[LouderVol]

R

Well, realistically they are just the pawn in the middle of the war. Nobody cared for them including the people you voted for, which you lied about. It actually sounds like the opposite, they're saying without a duly elected official they can't move forward but the framework is there if someone has a solution once someone is properly elected.

For the most part, as long as my money isn't involved, good.

The Ukrainians don't really mean much.... just pawns, looks like people are trying to save them.

Russia is saying that, not Ukraine. Even you can't say they are offering unbiased opinions when it comes to Ukraine.

 

[LouderVol]

Show of hands.

Who thinks Ukraine ought to accept a deal, negotiated without their participation, in which Russia gets to keep the 20 % of Ukrainian territory they currently occupy, and in exchange Russia pinky swears they won't do it again?

Because that's what's coming from Team Trump/Putin.

No that is what you are making up. I haven't seen any real particulars when it comes to exchanging territory nor Russia's promises.

I am willing to bet this will just go down as number 59,241 you are wrong because you jumped to some inane conclusion in regards to Trump.

 

[KB5252]

Seems to be a conflict with negotiations where yesterday Trump stated that Ukraine would be a part of the negotiations. Now Zelensky is stating they knew nothing about the talks in Saudi Arabia and will not recognize any agreement.

I don't see how you can have any negotiations without at least a party or person from Ukraine. If that's what is happening, I don't agree with it.

I think this is more about the US and Russia hashing out some things to pave the way first.

Or they made an error and mid talks realized any agreements they made couldn't be binding.......


I honestly think it's a little is both.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I think this is more about the US and Russia hashing out some things to pave the way first.

Or they made an error and mid talks realized any agreements they made couldn't be binding.......


I honestly think it's a little is both.

Unless Trump goes hard on the Ukraine, there still lacks an easy off-ramp. Sounds like they spoke of normalizing relations on many fronts. As long as none of my funds are going to that nonsense, Trump is doing well. Right now its about Europe and Ukraine trying to sabotage and interfere with what is going on with the U.S. and Russia.

Not much is going on in the solution front i.e. meat grinding continues. Its no different than 2+ years ago when I said the meat grinder could go on for quite some time. It will eventually end but no off-ramp right now. Europe is going to pretend like they are real player for a bit and then we'll see the time table when they realize that isn't going to work.

There really isn't much to this conflict, never was. The neocons setup this one very well though, hopefully Eastern Europe is paying attention.

 

[KB5252]

Show of hands.

Who thinks Ukraine ought to accept a deal, negotiated without their participation, in which Russia gets to keep the 20 % of Ukrainian territory they currently occupy, and in exchange Russia pinky swears they won't do it again?

Because that's what's coming from Team Trump/Putin.

It doesn't matter what we want..... It's what can be negotiated. Negotiations are about leverage and meeting objectives. In the absence of leverage objectives sometimes have to be compromised.

We'll see what comes next. What is acceptable to you? How would you achieve it?

 

[KB5252]

Unless Trump goes hard on the Ukraine, there still lacks an easy off-ramp. Sounds like they spoke of normalizing relations on many fronts. As long as none of my funds are going to that nonsense, Trump is doing well. Right now its about Europe and Ukraine trying to sabotage and interfere with what is going on with the U.S. and Russia.

Not much is going on in the solution front i.e. meat grinding continues. Its no different than 2+ years ago when I said the meat grinder could go on for quite some time. It will eventually end but no off-ramp right now. Europe is going to pretend like they are real player for a bit and then we'll see the time table when they realize that isn't going to work.

There really isn't much to this conflict, never was. The neocons setup this one very well though, hopefully Eastern Europe is paying attention.

I wouldn't say well. Any normalization should not come at the cost of standing with traditional allies. However we may feel they have not pulled their weight they are doing so now, for the most part. And we need them.

But hostilities between Russia and the US should not linger, there must be some mutual understanding and diplomacy, however suspect we may be of their motives.