War in Ukraine

[Orange.]

LOL a "coup" that ended in an election, where none of the people mentioned in Nuland's "damning" call, even ran.


View attachment 723244

It ended Europe's attempt to work out a settlement. It replaced Ukraine’s democratically elected government (albeit corrupt like its predecessors and the present government also) with a rabidly anti-Russian albeit illegal government of American origin. Followed swiftly by sanctions, destroying pipelines, all sorts of moves to reignite the Cold War. iirc, Ukraine replacing its offer to partner with Russia (and discounted Russian oil) to go over to the EU was estimated at the time as costing Ukraine $160 billion. That's the meaning of the EU "just not having the cash inducements available" (above) to win its case.

But forget this rabbit hole. The crux of the matter (strike the word "coup" if you can't handle that) was and is that the US treated it's ally is a way that violates all of your moral platitudes and fails your litmus test of who can be trusted.

Negotiations of this sort customarily occur between parties lacking complete trust. It's hardly a reason not to negotiate.

 

[LSU-SIU]

It ended Europe's attempt to work out a settlement. It replaced Ukraine’s democratically elected government (albeit corrupt like its predecessors and the present government also) with a rabidly anti-Russian albeit illegal government of American origin. Followed swiftly by sanctions, destroying pipelines, all sorts of moves to reignite the Cold War. iirc, Ukraine replacing its offer to partner with Russia (and discounted Russian oil) to go over to the EU was estimated at the time as costing Ukraine $160 billion. That's the meaning of the EU "just not having the cash inducements available" (above) to win its case.

But forget this rabbit hole. The crux of the matter (strike the word "coup" if you can't handle that) was and is that the US treated it's ally is a way that violates all of your moral platitudes and fails your litmus test of who can be trusted.

They are all trying to rewrite and forget history. (let's delete the thread)

LG is attempting to take credit for predicting Trump wouldn't support the Ukraine, duhhhh, that is what he campaigned on.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Yoyr post is perhaps the weakest effort to distract of all time on the board.

Trump, as predicted by myself and others, is on the verge of handing Ukraine to Putin in a silver platter. And your weaksauce response is, yeah, well, Biden sucked.

Stay focused. Trump is out of control.

Don’t give me that BS. Weak leadership was the problem from the beginning with Biden calling the shots. All of the money, supplies, support, weapons etc the US gave only delayed the inevitable. I’m not excusing Trump but we shouldn’t be in this got dayum position in the first place.

 

[BeardedVol]

It ended Europe's attempt to work out a settlement. It replaced Ukraine’s democratically elected government (albeit corrupt like its predecessors and the present government also) with a rabidly anti-Russian albeit illegal government of American origin. Followed swiftly by sanctions, destroying pipelines, all sorts of moves to reignite the Cold War. iirc, Ukraine replacing its offer to partner with Russia (and discounted Russian oil) to go over to the EU was estimated at the time as costing Ukraine $160 billion. That's the meaning of the EU "just not having the cash inducements available" (above) to win its case.

But forget this rabbit hole. The crux of the matter (strike the word "coup" if you can't handle that) was and is that the US treated it's ally is a way that violates all of your moral platitudes and fails your litmus test of who can be trusted.

Lol the discussions between the EU and Yanukovych ended two months before Nuland said "fork the EU", which she said in reference to the EU being petrified of upsetting Putin because half of the EU was sucking down cheap Russian gas.

EU rejects Russia 'veto' on Ukraine agreement

The European Union warns Russia it will not allow it to "veto" deals in Eastern Europe, after a summit fails to revive an agreement with Ukraine.

www.bbc.com

 

[Orange.]

All we are saying is give peace a chance. Sing it, gator. Sing it, BeardedWarMonger.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Same thing today as I said back in good ole 2022. What has changed, nothing... we're just moving the Europeans up on deck.

War in Ukraine

Pretty much how I see things. At this point fairly moot, but a good run down, imo. Its really up to the Europeans to stop this **** but its a tough choice now as the United States has completely ****ed them as well.

Unless someone comes up from the West side and says enough of this ****, hard to see how complete destruction of the Ukraine doesn't continue for some time.

War in Ukraine

The Ukraine is not going to be joining NATO, the Ukraine will simply be the place where weapons are deployed to blow stuff up.

The Ukraine is expendable as is increasingly Europe is. The only use for the Ukraine is to get blown up, that is what its being used for... other than that nobody cares.

With all the rewriting of history and people forgetting what they wrote..... this thread is....

 

[PEPPERJAX]

@Burhead

 

[Orange.]

Lol the discussions between the EU and Yanukovych ended two months before Nuland said "fork the EU", which she said in reference to the EU being petrified of upsetting Putin because half of the EU was sucking down cheap Russian gas.

EU rejects Russia 'veto' on Ukraine agreement

The European Union warns Russia it will not allow it to "veto" deals in Eastern Europe, after a summit fails to revive an agreement with Ukraine.

www.bbc.com

You're back to your "distraction, red herring, and refusal to answer" normal mode. The point is we happily effed our allies. That means according to the same test you apply to Russia, that we too (sadly) cannot be trusted.

If you don't like the example, use any of the dozen others I provided. Your move was to cite some instance where Russia could not be trusted in the past. I said, OK, but look at the implication. Your procedure also means that we cannot be trusted. Logic is not your strong suit, everyone knows. It's not that your maneuver doesn't "work." It's that it works "too well" for your purposes. Someone besides you will understand this readily.

But chill out and see what happens. You don't have to start a new American war tonight. Adios.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Exclusive poll: Is Zelensky more of a 'dictator' than Putin?

Some 1009 registered voters were asked for their one-word descriptions of Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelensky.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Ritzwatch]

Why can’t Ukraine keep fighting this war even if we want them to stop?

Why do the Dems want to continue this war? Kickbacks?

 

[LSU-SIU]

Why can’t Ukraine keep fighting this war even if we want them to stop?

Why do the Dems want to continue this war? Kickbacks?

Just like all the scams, you run the scams as long as possible before you burn it down (in Afghanistan it was 20 years and up to $2T )... you have to have another war lined up. The next war will most probably be European countries against European countries which I alluded to in 2022. The neocons set this up very well, which is what I've been saying for YEARS.... there is no easy off-ramp. Europe vs Europe

So.... the goal is to get as much money in there as long as possible, than burn it down and rinse and repeat. (its best if the gag is changed up a little but they have it down to a science)

The neocons will win most of this... both the Ukraine and Europe were expendable. Not much can be done to save them, imo, but there might be greater chances for Eastern Europe if they act.

Biden was going to cut bait as well, the train was on can only go so far down the tracks .... than abandon... move onto Europe.

It was always either Europe going next or Russia.... Russia won, Europe is on deck.

Basically, what Trump did was cut how much the neocons win, if possible you jail some that you can..... there is no real possibility to save the Ukraine, not really, never was. Europe probably can't be saved at this point.

War in Ukraine

There isn't much to this conflict, but the neocons did a number for sure.... no out really or easy out. People are going to have to go and take dirt naps over there.

Neocons are wondering why people didn't put in a complaint form... the plans were on display... I knew about them. Depopulation was always part of the plan for Europe, it was a matter of when, now you know why they needed Russia to lose. I tried to tell everyone. They have been telling people for 30 years, see Congressional Record.


Europe + Ukraine = Neocons Greatest Achievement Yet

 

[Orange.]

Trump says Ukraine started the war and that they better get in line or will lose their country. When it is pointed out that such comments are very irresponsible, what does he do?

Makes the same comments, five times worse. He can't stand it when people point out he's wrong. He loses his sh!t completely and he makes it worse.

We've seen this a thousand times with him and it's only now that people are figuring it out? He's a menace. He's reckless. He's dangerous.

The guy or the handlers of the guy who got us into this clusterf were reckless and dangerous. I never saw you notice. You're a party line boy. I've never seen you notice fault there. I've seen you post the daily disseminated "comeback du jour" over and again in that situation. It's like talking with a bot to listen to you.

It's not anything that is "being figured out." It's the same ol' party-loyal news and coordinated social media daily blitz that you confuse with reality. Tonight must be psychologizing night. Usually the same points "spontaneously" arise everywhere at once. It's weird you never noticed. Your mind belongs to the reckless and dangerous, criminal and treasonous RussiaGate lie. It's your formative experience in this situation. All of your impressions are conditioned by the lie. Plus you probably are socially rewarded in your social circle for best repeating the line of the day. And terrified to take exception, even if you wanted to on occasion.

You can't stand it when people point out that you're wrong. You lose your sh!t completely and make it worse. I've seen this a thousand times with you. Plus you're smug.

 

[Orange.]

View attachment 723270

Exclusive poll: Is Zelensky more of a 'dictator' than Putin?

Some 1009 registered voters were asked for their one-word descriptions of Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelensky.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Wow! It says US and Russia restored diplomatic relations. That's a small but significant victory for sanity.

 

[KB5252]

This "Zelensky is illegitimate because Ukraine won't hold an election" argument is moronic.

Ukraine is under martial law because they've been invaded and are in active hostilities. The Ukrainian constitution prohibits holding elections during periods of martial law.

But even if martial law were lifted today and elections were set for next month, how could they possibly be conducted in the regions that are under the control of, or under the immediate threat of attack from, a hostile foreign power?

Anyone complaining about this is either refusing to use simply logic, or he is actively hoping that Putin can install a puppet in Kyiv.

I get it, and I didn't really disagree with any of this...... But what is the endgame? We can't continue to prop this war. Keep it churning. What is the best outcome? What is the best outcome we can provide?

All valid questions, I don't like how Trump is handling this, but I'm not sure there is another outcome.

Trump is not handling things very well, I wouldn't even call it aggressive, or even reckless so much as it is not thinking multiple steps ahead.

 

[bamawriter]

I get it, and I didn't really disagree with any of this...... But what is the endgame? We can't continue to prop this war. Keep it churning. What is the best outcome? What is the best outcome we can provide?

All valid questions, I don't like how Trump is handling this, but I'm not sure there is another outcome.

Trump is not handling things very well, I wouldn't even call it aggressive, or even reckless so much as it is not thinking multiple steps ahead.

I don't know if there is a great endgame. Trump could have said "Look, we cannot continue to fund your defense. Yes, you were attacked and Putin is 100% in the wrong. But it is not in America's best interest to keep burning money on this war. If you cannot maintain your defense without our contributions, then you need to figure out how to end this diplomatically, and we'll help you do that." I might not agree with that position, but it is a logical, defensible position.

But that's not how Trump operates. Trump has to try to rewrite history and make Ukraine the villain. There may be no good endgame available, but Trump's insanity is liable to make the worst result the most likely.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I get it, and I didn't really disagree with any of this...... But what is the endgame? We can't continue to prop this war. Keep it churning. What is the best outcome? What is the best outcome we can provide?
O
All valid questions, I don't like how Trump is handling this, but I'm not sure there is another outcome.

Trump is not handling things very well, I wouldn't even call it aggressive, or even reckless so much as it is not thinking multiple steps ahead.

War is limited to Europe and nukes aren't used is best outcome.

Trump should be moving u.s. nukes out of Europe with rapid evacuation plans for u.s. personnel if required in the future.

Not much else to do. Sit back and enjoy the show the neocons created...as mentioned long ago...the neocons setup both the Ukraine and Europe.

Already plans within plans in europe....which is why some aren't included. Eastern Europe might be able to save themselves...but time might be limited.

 

[Orange.]

please. this is the gun grabber argument that gun manufacturers are at fault because gang bangers performed a drive by.

we can end our aid, but that doesn't mean we are in any way responsible for finding a suitable peace or choosing who their leader is and isn't.

We are lobbing our missiles into Russia via proxies. Proxies trained by NATO (us). Biden had to give the green light for the US missile attacks on Russia to proceed. We need to stop it. Thank god Khrushchev had more sense than Biden’s handlers.

 

[Orange.]

I get it, and I didn't really disagree with any of this...... But what is the endgame? We can't continue to prop this war. Keep it churning. What is the best outcome? What is the best outcome we can provide?

All valid questions, I don't like how Trump is handling this, but I'm not sure there is another outcome.

Trump is not handling things very well, I wouldn't even call it aggressive, or even reckless so much as it is not thinking multiple steps ahead.

You don’t know what he is thinking. Try to remember where you first heard that line.

 

[norrislakevol]

War is limited to Europe and nukes aren't used is best outcome.

Trump should be moving u.s. nukes out of Europe with rapid evacuation plans for u.s. personnel if required in the future.

Not much else to do. Sit back and enjoy the show the neocons created...as mentioned long ago...the neocons setup both the Ukraine and Europe.

Already plans within plans in europe....which is why some aren't included. Eastern Europe might be able to save themselves...but time might be limited.

I think the war in Europe is a little different when it happens in the future. Russia will be out of the game for a while since it has lost so much of its equipment. I look for internal strife within individual countries themselves leading to multiple civil wars, then some countries like France may try to intervene. Germany is the powder keg that few are talking about right now. Good things never happen when they take up arms.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I think the war in Europe is a little different when it happens in the future. Russia will be out of the game for a while since it has lost so much of its equipment. I look for internal strife within individual countries themselves leading to multiple civil wars, then some countries like France may try to intervene. Germany is the powder keg that few are talking about right now. Good things never happen when they take up arms.

Yeah. I think its probably impossible to predict with accuracy as to how Europe collapses. Eastern Europe is at risk as they are smallest and have less of everything, and they had already been targeted for elimination. They should probably consider working with Russia immediately. The rest of Europe's military sucks, but what does it matter... its all relative... they'll be fighting either internally or fighting other weak European countries. Probably the countries that open up to Russia will have the advantage in many ways.

This was always going to lead here, the issue was the plan was for Russia to fall first.

"F* Europe" - Nuland

The neocons won, Trump will only be able to clawback so much. I was laughing so hard by the complete idiots in this thread saying how we are good friends of Europe. (Europe had time to save itself, probably too late now)

 

[jmacvols1]

 

[LSU-SIU]

U.S. is going to be indicting that midget bastard, Trump should turn over all targeting information to russia. Turn over all communications the U.S. had with the Ukraine. Dude isn't going to be able to sleep in the same place twice the rest of his life.

Probably time to sanction the Ukraine.

 

[volbound1700]

No, you did not predict I did... you encouraged wreck-less behavior and now people will die. I said in the Ukraine was going to be abandoned and I said why.

Europe is on deck, see my 2022 posts.

Trump campaigned on it.

I think this is the real issue. Trump is so obsessed with living up to all his campaign promises. We (USA) have little control over this situation. Sometimes **** happens in a world of 8 Billion that we have no ability to control. We are not Emperor of the World.

Trump probably thought he could fix it while campaign and now that he is in office, he is finding that Russia is probably more difficult to work with than he expected. Ukraine is probably also pretty difficult to deal with IMO. Both parties won't budge on their demands. Trump is not having a lot of success so he is throwing a temper tantrum which doesn't look good. Keep in mind, I voted for Trump and there are a lot of things he is doing that are great. This is NOT great.

To be frank, Trump should have never even said anything about the situation. USA should not be involved at all IMO. Our involvement just weakens us as we don't have the Finances to support Ukraine long-term. China is the real winner here with how things are going.

 

[BeardedVol]

 

[LSU-SIU]

I think this is the real issue. Trump is so obsessed with living up to all his campaign promises. We (USA) have little control over this situation. Sometimes **** happens in a world of 8 Billion that we have no ability to control. We are not Emperor of the World.

Trump probably thought he could fix it while campaign and now that he is in office, he is finding that Russia is probably more difficult to work with than he expected. Ukraine is probably also pretty difficult to deal with IMO. Both parties won't budge on their demands. Trump is not having a lot of success so he is throwing a temper tantrum which doesn't look good. Keep in mind, I voted for Trump and there are a lot of things he is doing that are great. This is NOT great.

To be frank, Trump should have never even said anything about the situation. USA should not be involved at all IMO. Our involvement just weakens us as we don't have the Finances to support Ukraine long-term. China is the real winner here with how things are going.

It is fixed, the Ukraine is in the process of being cutoff. It seems great to me, money can't be laundered, and cycled back. That midget keeps it up, Trump might just help Russia out.

Trump is not having a lot of success so he is throwing a temper tantrum which doesn't look good.

I think you're on a different planet, he's fixing everything as much as possible and as quick as possible. This is a 100% success.

Both parties won't budge on their demands.

That will work itself out naturally.

Basically, the outcome was always going to be bad for the Ukraine.... Europe could have saved itself, that probably isn't going to work now. It doesn't matter who you voted for, it was coming down to the end in the Ukraine.