War in Ukraine

[utvolpj]

There is no money to be made in those wars, but yes you are correct. Its all about $$$$$. The neocons basically won in the Ukraine meaning extraction of large amounts of money, the globalist would rather the Russia would be in a state of collapse so they could take over the Ukraine, Eastern Europe and Russia. That doesn't seem to be in the cards now, although Eastern Europe is vulnerable to attack from Europe.

Since that all appears to have failed, we now move onto Europe. The hunter becomes the hunted, but let's be honest Europe is like the Elmer Fudd of hunters.

Its appears we are getting close to the burn it down stage of the scam in the Ukraine, just like Afghanistan. Its a scam, always was.

Come on, you stole my goodfellas reference!

Same deal they had some time ago that got blown up. Except now they get it with hundreds of thousands fewer males and completely demolished infrastructure. That's what happens when you count on the usa to back you up. Ukraine was the Bamboo Lounge from Goodfellas

 

[LSU-SIU]

You fail to see the different. If you are talking about recently, USA doesn't seize territory when they go in. They, most of the time, get no tangible value in their actions. They do it as the "World Police" to protect "Democracy." Sure, sometimes there could be economic reasons but the last time I checked, we didn't get any of that Iraq oil or make anything from being in Afghanistan or Iraq. Both were bottomless money pits that are a big part of why we are $ 36 Trillion in debt today.

Russia is actually trying to seize land from a neighbor and has already done it once with Crimea.

Now if you talk about USA in the 19th Century, that is another story.

Actually you have been stealing Syria oil from the middle of Obama's term, at the same time you have been funding the enemies you are paying the military to fight. Its much worse than you can imagine.

The U.S. installs puppets, Iraq has already told the U.S. to get out, you're still there. Syria told you to get out, you didn't.... you actually funded terrorist groups which the U.S. is fighting and cause the Syrian government to collapse.

Trump has said, we're getting out of Syria, and he is getting us out of the Ukraine, good. Looks like Europe is on deck. GOOD.

But even if ALL THIS IS FALSE, even if everything I say is not true.

THERE IS NO PLAN FOR THE UKRAINE TO OBTAIN VICTORY

1.) fund the welfare state

2.) don't fund the welfare state

There is no other choice that anyone has presented and either choice most likely will not result in anything good coming out of the Ukraine for the U.S. Nobody is even suggesting they are coming up with a plan.

This isn't chess, heck, its not even checkers... its tic tac toe. There was no plan for victory in Afghanistan either.

It makes more sense when you realize the Truth, its about extracting money is the goal.... which is why there is never a plan. Nobody is going to say, the plan is to make neocons money.

 

[Rocky_Top_Vol13]

 

[LouderVol]

And yet Ukraine suffered material loss to comply with US demands. Billions of dollars of missiles and long range bombers, not to mention the intrinsic safety of holding nuclear weapons.

You can hem and haw about the language, but the intent was clear, give up your weapons, we'll make sure no one invades you or tries to politically strong arm you (highly ironic at the moment), don't and will levy economic sanctions against you until your country collapses.

lol. the language is what matters. its why you get it in writing. so that it is there and agreed upon by all sides. trying to maintain "intent" is bs that could mean literally anything.

 

[volgr]

so now it sounds like you are saying Russia is part of the death cult too. which would make sense because they were the ones who chose violence.

If you are ignorant to the atrocities that took place in the Donbas, then I could see how one could form such an uninformed opinion.

There was no trap for Russia here. The trap, set by the Western death cultists, was for Ukraine who willingly walked right into it and became a proxy through which the West could attack and try and destabilize Russia. The idiots who have been running American and EU foreign policy thought they were much smarter than they actually are.

 

[volgr]

And yet Ukraine suffered material loss to comply with US demands. Billions of dollars of missiles and long range bombers, not to mention the intrinsic safety of holding nuclear weapons.

This has been debunked over and over and over again in this thread...yet you continue to repeat this idiocy.

 

[volgr]

You fail to see the different. If you are talking about recently, USA doesn't seize territory when they go in. They, most of the time, get no tangible value in their actions.

Sure they do, they just do not formalize it and their propaganda mouthpieces assure you they are leaving the Country better than they found it. Don't be so naive.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Sure they do, they just do not formalize it and their propaganda mouthpieces assure you they are leaving the Country better than they found it. Don't be so naive.

The U.S. generally installs puppets or attempts to install puppets, but whether its successful is not really material as its about how much money is extracted before the ultimate failure. The goal is long term puppets to extract from the country its resources for the global groups i.e. black rock or similar. Afghanistan and Iraq has the been the most successful campaign to date in extraction from the U.S. taxpayer.

As for the Ukraine, Trump is getting straight to the point. We shouldn't have been involved from the start and this probably wouldn't have happened. (mostly immaterial except for context)

So.... what is going on now. Its pretty simple, the U.S. and Russia are negotiating who gets what from the SPOILS of war. The Ukraine is not relevant to the negotiation, not really. Its pretend sovereign nation. Trump wants real payback for what was spent and to limit the amount the neocons could extract from the Ukraine and eventually Eastern Europe.

Make no doubt here, the neocons did win.... Trump is only limiting the amount of the win.

The Ukrainians are about as sovereign as our chickens in our coup, they pretend they are the masters.... we let them pretend.

 

[LouderVol]

If you are ignorant to the atrocities that took place in the Donbas, then I could see how one could form such an uninformed opinion.

There was no trap for Russia here. The trap, set by the Western death cultists, was for Ukraine who willingly walked right into it and became a proxy through which the West could attack and try and destabilize Russia. The idiots who have been running American and EU foreign policy thought they were much smarter than they actually are.

So the death cult set a trap for Ukraine, that drug Russia into it, so that the west could attack Russia. yeah, sounds like the west trapped Russia. they fell for the gambit for the west to attack them with impunity.

in reality. The Russians attacked Ukraine. this triggered a memorandum, that Russia had signed too 30 years ago, that gave the US the option to provide support. Without Russia's invasion there was no opportunity for the west to destabilize Russia. Russia created this trap for themselves, they were literally one of the authors, and a signer of the memorandum. Russia has no one to blame but themselves.

 

[BreatheUT]

The U.S. generally installs puppets or attempts to install puppets, but whether its successful is not really material as its about how much money is extracted before the ultimate failure. The goal is long term puppets to extract from the country its resources for the global groups i.e. black rock or similar. Afghanistan and Iraq has the been the most successful campaign to date in extraction from the U.S. taxpayer.

As for the Ukraine, Trump is getting straight to the point. We shouldn't have been involved from the start and this probably wouldn't have happened. (mostly immaterial except for context)

So.... what is going on now. Its pretty simple, the U.S. and Russia are negotiating who gets what from the SPOILS of war. The Ukraine is not relevant to the negotiation, not really. Its pretend sovereign nation. Trump wants real payback for what was spent and to limit the amount the neocons could extract from the Ukraine and eventually Eastern Europe.

Make no doubt here, the neocons did win.... Trump is only limiting the amount of the win.

The Ukrainians are about as sovereign as our chickens in our coup, they pretend they are the masters.... we let them pretend.

Interesting

 

[LouderVol]

The U.S. generally installs puppets or attempts to install puppets, but whether its successful is not really material as its about how much money is extracted before the ultimate failure. The goal is long term puppets to extract from the country its resources for the global groups i.e. black rock or similar. Afghanistan and Iraq has the been the most successful campaign to date in extraction from the U.S. taxpayer.

as for the matter at hand, Russia had literally bought their own puppet in Ukraine. they bought off Yanukovych, then rescued him with Spetnaz, or some other Russian special forces, and have since kept him fat and happy in a mansion in Russia.

but somehow despite that history, its the US's fault for installing some president 6 years after the start of the mess.

 

[LSU-SIU]

as for the matter at hand, Russia had literally bought their own puppet in Ukraine. they bought off Yanukovych, then rescued him with Spetnaz, or some other Russian special forces, and have since kept him fat and happy in a mansion in Russia.

but somehow despite that history, its the US's fault for installing some president 6 years after the start of the mess.

But even if true how is that my business and the neocons didn't care? (for the record, it was going on for 30 years prior see Congressional record.... again mostly immaterial at this stage except for context)

Nobody cares about the Ukraine, which is why its in the state it is.

What is going on now.... exposure of the Truth. The U.S. and Russia are coming up with rules to split the spoils of war, why? We were never the Ukrainians friend.

What is U.S. saying.... we admit we're not your friends, by the way.... we were never your friend. Sorry about your luck.

 

[BeardedVol]

This has been debunked over and over and over again in this thread...yet you continue to repeat this idiocy.

Lol are you really trying to claim that Ukraine didn't give up nuclear weapons, long range bombers and ICBMs in order to comply with the Budapest Memorandum?

 

[LSU-SIU]

Exactly. The U.S. was never your friend. I would learn to speak Polish, just my two cents but we'll see how this turns out while Da POOOTIN and Orange man split up the spoils of war.

I tried to tell you.

 

[volbound1700]

Sure they do, they just do not formalize it and their propaganda mouthpieces assure you they are leaving the Country better than they found it. Don't be so naive.

Show me proof

 

[volbound1700]

Actually you have been stealing Syria oil from the middle of Obama's term, at the same time you have been funding the enemies you are paying the military to fight. Its much worse than you can imagine.

The U.S. installs puppets, Iraq has already told the U.S. to get out, you're still there. Syria told you to get out, you didn't.... you actually funded terrorist groups which the U.S. is fighting and cause the Syrian government to collapse.

Trump has said, we're getting out of Syria, and he is getting us out of the Ukraine, good. Looks like Europe is on deck. GOOD.

But even if ALL THIS IS FALSE, even if everything I say is not true.

THERE IS NO PLAN FOR THE UKRAINE TO OBTAIN VICTORY

1.) fund the welfare state

2.) don't fund the welfare state

There is no other choice that anyone has presented and either choice most likely will not result in anything good coming out of the Ukraine for the U.S. Nobody is even suggesting they are coming up with a plan.

This isn't chess, heck, its not even checkers... its tic tac toe. There was no plan for victory in Afghanistan either.

It makes more sense when you realize the Truth, its about extracting money is the goal.... which is why there is never a plan. Nobody is going to say, the plan is to make neocons money.

No, they are NOT taking land and we got NOTHING tangible from our efforts other than Afghanistan and Iraq. They fight these wars to maintain "status quo" because they (the US Government) want to keep things the same to not disrupt the Pax America we have going on.

I tend to think we lose in these arrangements. Americans die and their tax payers are frittered away in wars that either could be fought better with a different process or shouldn't be fought at all. I would LOVE to see us get tangible gains in these wars like occupy these nations and make them US territories, steal their resources, etc. I would feel like Americans weren't dying for nothing like they are now. Heck, sometimes I wonder if we should just become like Rome and slowly take over everyone until it becomes the United States of Earth (or Untied Earth from Star Trek). If you study Roman history, they really didn't set out to become the Empire they became eventually, they slowly slept walked their way into it.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I tend to thing we lose in these arrangements.

The normal American absolutely loses, in addition to their lives and limbs. Neocons, globalists, and government scum absolutely gain, in most cases they have nothing to lose.

Keep things in control and profit from death.

 

[Orange.]

We need to examine the logic of the “Russian propaganda” argument. It wants to say and does say that if some opinion or fact x appears or has been alleged to ever have appeared in a Russian publication, that is prima facia evidence that x is false and also traitorous. And furthermore that the Russian publication is the only possible way that one might ever arrive at x.

A says x. But B once said x. Therefore A is lying.

This is not a valid argument.

It’s a completely illogical smear job and misinformation tool. If that is not immediately clear to someone, that is the use of examples. And keep in mind that the people who use this astoundingly illogical argument are employing it as a universal “truth” or tool. They apply it to anything and everything, as convenient. So a single counterexample shows the “Russian propaganda” argument to invalid.

Example 1. Russia Today said Obama was elected in 2008. Therefore Obama was not elected in 2008. Saying or believing that “Obama was elected in 2008” is spreading “Russian disinformation.”

Example 2. Russian Pravda said that an American spy plane was shot down over Russian territory during the Eisenhower administration. Therefore that is by definition false. Saying or believing that a spy plane was shot down (regardless of how the speaker arrived at his or her opinion) proves that the speaker is “spreading Russian propaganda.”

—-
Bonus from “power users” of the bad argument: Everyone who says x “must be a foreign national.”

President Eisenhower must be a foreign national.

 

[LSU-SIU]

As I said years ago, this will most likely escalate to Europe as they are expendable. Terms sound pretty good to me. Trump needs to immediately withdrawal all nuclear weapons from the EU and start to move on excessive weapon systems, and an emergency plan for the withdraw of troops in the future if required.

Yes, we're not your friends buddy.

 

[hog88]

As I said years ago, this will most likely escalate to Europe as they are expendable.

LOL

Terms are acceptable.

 

[LSU-SIU]

LOL

Terms are acceptable.

I edited my post and said the same thing.

 

[TVOLS]

Exactly. The U.S. was never your friend. I would learn to speak Polish, just my two cents but we'll see how this turns out while Da POOOTIN and Orange man split up the spoils of war.

I tried to tell you.

I don't know what info is true, but here is the national security advisor saying the opposite with Aluminum. Just start at 1:09 if interested

 

[LSU-SIU]

I don't know what info is true, but here is the national security advisor saying the opposite with Aluminum. Just start at 1:09 if interested

Two different things, I mean they have minerals but reserve assets are not really worth that much depending on the expense to extract them and process them. He is actually talking about infrastructure in the video at 1:09. There is nothing stopping the U.S. from saying well, thanks for the minerals, its not enough. This isn't a peace deal, its a pay us bitch. In two weeks, pay us more bitch.

The Ukrainians really aren't needed, the war can basically end whenever Trump says. It just looks like the U.S. and Russia deciding which resources go where, and the Ukrainians still believe they matter... they absolutely don't matter.

Trump can't help the Ukraine, he can maybe (goal) get assets back or at least something he can work with the Russia on or with.

 

[LouderVol]

But even if true how is that my business and the neocons didn't care? (for the record, it was going on for 30 years prior see Congressional record.... again mostly immaterial at this stage except for context)

Nobody cares about the Ukraine, which is why its in the state it is.

What is going on now.... exposure of the Truth. The U.S. and Russia are coming up with rules to split the spoils of war, why? We were never the Ukrainians friend.

What is U.S. saying.... we admit we're not your friends, by the way.... we were never your friend. Sorry about your luck.

its our business because we signed a piece of paper saying we agreed to it being our business.

I don't like that we signed it, and I don't like the terms on that piece of paper. but we signed it.

we aren't going to have ANY business if we can't keep our word that we signed onto.

 

[LSU-SIU]

its our business because we signed a piece of paper saying we agreed to it being our business.

I don't like that we signed it, and I don't like the terms on that piece of paper. but we signed it.

we aren't going to have ANY business if we can't keep our word that we signed onto.

Its not our business if we say its not our business. Nobody offered security guarantees to the Ukraine which is why you don't have U.S. military there which is what the Russians would have had issue with. Once we undermined the Ukraine and used it for proxy, I would think any of those terms would be moot anyway.