War in Ukraine

#84,101
#84,101
Yall can say what you want about trump but i didn’t see Putin on US soil during an election year campaigning with a foreign political party…..justifying that would be crazy work…its not hard to spot a lobbyist

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#84,102
#84,102
Matt2496 said:
I've gone back and watched the context. The press conference wasn't hostile until Zelensky talked back to JD Vance who was stating that the US should be/is engaging in diplomacy. Trump should not have raised his voice and argued back as that wasn't the time nor the place, but just blindly blaming Trump/Vance (like what many are doing in this thread) isn't entirely accurate or justified. The way Zelensky approached it was very disrespectful, and Trump was disrespectful back to Zelensky.

Also, the guy badgering Zelensky about the suit is a moron.
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I just believe if you're bigger and more powerful you should be able to convey that rationally. We know it's very easy to bait Trump but I thought Vance would be harder (unless he was showing off for the boss). When my kids starts badgering me for something in public I react better than they did.
 
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#84,105
#84,105
utvolpj said:
I just believe if you're bigger and more powerful you should be able to convey that rationally. We know it's very easy to bait Trump but I thought Vance would be harder (unless he was showing off for the boss). When my kids starts badgering me for something in public I react better than they did.
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You don't walk into that place and try and strong arm everyone with no plan, no money, and telling them basically I want all my people to die... by the way.... I'm wasting your time. Suicidal.

Vance should have thrown him into the fireplace.
 
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#84,107
#84,107
Ritzwatch said:
If one truly wants peace (soon) in Ukraine, this is the way it had to happen.

Had to tell the military authority of Ukraine that they can't win.
Had to tell him they would have lost already without our arms.
Had to tell him that we weren't going to continue to provide arms indefinitely.

It is ok to be anti-Russia without being pro-Ukraine. Neither of them are our friend.

You won't convince me the US has not communicated privately to Z that they want him to pursue a peace agreement with Russia.

Zelensky thought he could outmaneuver this administration by publicly using his seat in the Oval to push for what he wants. I don't blame him for trying; he would have gotten away with it with any of our last few decades of leadership.

Zelensky also thought he could control the flow of weapons to his country without having to make any concessions towards peace.

He was wrong on both his strategies.

This was either a huge step towards Ukraine negotiating in good faith for peace, or it is a huge step towards Europe taking a much, much larger role in their own defense. Because Europe is incapable of the latter, I suspect it will be former, and likely relatively soon.
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Today reminds me of the old Lenin quote of "there are decades where nothing happens; and weeks where decades happen".

It is going to be very interesting how this plays out.

Does Europe finally find their balls and grow up? If so, America wins (both long-term and short-term). Does Zelensky comes back and offers a mineral deal? If so, America wins. Does America and Europe basically force Ukraine and Russia into a ceasefire? America would have won by having Russia's army destroyed without losing a single solider or piece of equipment while keeping Putin in charge (which is VERY important to the US).

The worst part about today, as is with Trump in general, is that tactically/optically he is a disaster regardless of whether the substance is ends up being strategically helpful.
 
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#84,108
#84,108
LSU-SIU said:
You don't walk into that place and try and strong arm everyone with no plan, no money, and telling them basically I want all my people to die... by the way.... I'm wasting your time. Suicidal.
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Like my kids. Dismiss them or wave/laugh it off but don't go to their level. Be stronger
 
#84,110
#84,110
utvolpj said:
Like my kids. Dismiss them or wave/laugh it off but don't go to their level. Be stronger
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That's not going to their level, that is you defending the U.S. Vance did great because that took the pressure off the Orange guy. He is wasting a bunch of time and money for no reason. Let them all die.

They have been telling, you need to make peace.... if not you don't need us.

Trump gave that midget plenty of warnings.

 
#84,112
#84,112
BeardedVol said:
Lol, why cause Rubio came out and fellated trump on twitter?

It's been shown that Rubio will quite literally say anything and change his position on a whim if Trump demands it of him.

So what he said afterwards vs his body language in the moment is irrelevant.
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Must have been some threat...

 
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#84,117
#84,117
volkyries said:
Seems hard to believe all of the government cutting (contracts, employees, etc), tariffs, and uncertainty will not have an effect on the economy, but we will just have to see. Pres. Trump is moving a lot of levers at once so it would be hard to predict the effect. I hope it is all for the good even long term, but it sure seems like he is setting us up for short term pain at least.
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Hopefully it is the no pain no gain for the long term.

If consumer prices can come down and my retirement savings keeps going up, I will celebrate whoever did it, D or R next to their name regardless
 
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#84,119
#84,119
We're about to see how quickly the U.S. can become obsolete. Europe cannot risk a Russian win. A Pootin victory in Ukraine won't be enough. He'll turn his eyes to countries that are NATO members, and Europe will have to send physical troops. They can either outlast Putin, or potentially face another World War with us on the side of Russia.

That's why European Countries have been saying this week that they are considering putting boots on the ground to defend Ukraine, because they know that Pootin will invade other countries after this.
 
#84,121
#84,121
utvolpj said:
I just believe if you're bigger and more powerful you should be able to convey that rationally. We know it's very easy to bait Trump but I thought Vance would be harder (unless he was showing off for the boss). When my kids starts badgering me for something in public I react better than they did.
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You’re in here crying about a man’s suit. 😂
 
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#84,124
#84,124
lostsheep said:
It's important to have the right people in the right places at significant points in history.
Trump's failures at supporting Ukraine and Zelensky today is an example of having the wrong person in place.
Imagine FDR taking the same approach with Churchill during WWII, and siding with Hitler against European nations.
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#84,125
#84,125
To anyone actually watching and able to move beyond the Vogue fashion critique, the clear take away here is that the Trump admin cannot work with the Ukraine admin and at this point the EU should take the lead in any actual bilateral discussions and assume the US is withdrawing. Because that is going to be the result from this and ultimately the EU has to manage whatever actually does happen at the end of hostilities
 
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