War in Ukraine

#85,227
#85,227
LSU-SIU said:
Western Ukraine ain't worth ****, I wouldn't pay $100 for that stupid mineral resource deal.

Russia is using much of the colder area which is why they are building their ice shipping route. Russia is almost twice the size of the U.S. with like 1/3rd the population, they have plenty of land and resources. Which is why the neocons had them targeted for termination.
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How do we compare when we take Canada and Greenland?
 
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#85,229
#85,229
dalton_vol said:
How have liberals/communists gone from anti-war to wanting US troops to fight Russia.
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its simply because of Trump.

The Obama admin did even less than Trump 1st term. no one cared, no one was upset. Trump comes in and fights giving Ukraine what little we were giving at the time, and suddenly it became a priority for the Dems to fund Ukraine.
 
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#85,230
#85,230
InVOLuntary said:
LOL, so you admit he wants US soldiers on the battlefield. Not happening dude. As bad as you want to see American blood shed in Ukraine, It's not happening.
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He wants a a ceasefire that actually has ramifications for Putin if he breaks it, since he's broken every other ceasefire he's ever agreed to.

Bizarre that MAGA thinks Ukraine should give up $500 billion in minerals to the US, give Putin 20% of the country, and have zero guarantees, that Putin isn't going to rearm and attack in 5 years.

I'd honestly get your water tested for lead contamination.
 
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#85,231
#85,231
volbound1700 said:
Heck, at the very least, they could start a GoFundMe and pay Ukraine. I point that out on Facebook to a few posters and one did a major meltdown about it. Someone posted this already but this is more anti-Trump behavior than being about really wanting to help Ukraine.
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There were 81 million that voted for Joe Biden. If each donated $1000 that would be 81 billion. That would go along way.
 
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#85,232
#85,232
BeardedVol said:
He wants a a ceasefire that actually has ramifications for Putin if he breaks it, since he's broken every other ceasefire he's ever agreed to.

Bizarre that MAGA thinks Ukraine should give up $500 billion in minerals to the US, give Putin 20 of the country, and have zero guarantees, that Putin isn't going to rearm and attack in 5 years.

I'd honestly get your water tested for lead contamination.
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I think your vagina hat is too tight. How do you force Putin to adhere to the agreement? (Go ahead and say it, boots on the ground)
 
#85,234
#85,234
LouderVol said:
its simply because of Trump.

The Obama admin did even less than Trump 1st term. no one cared, no one was upset. Trump comes in and fights giving Ukraine what little we were giving at the time, and suddenly it became a priority for the Dems to fund Ukraine.
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That's what "deferring to Europe" got us, a full-on invasion of Ukraine 8 years later.
www.bbc.com

Angela Merkel rejects criticism over Russia gas deals

The former German chancellor, who quit politics three years ago, speaks to the BBC in a rare interview.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
#85,235
#85,235
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#85,236
#85,236
BeardedVol said:
He wants a a ceasefire that actually has ramifications for Putin if he breaks it, since he's broken every other ceasefire he's ever agreed to.

Bizarre that MAGA thinks Ukraine should give up $500 billion in minerals to the US, give Putin 20% of the country, and have zero guarantees, that Putin isn't going to rearm and attack in 5 years.

I'd honestly get your water tested for lead contamination.
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$500 billion in minerals sounds like a good start for the US.
 
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#85,237
#85,237
BeardedVol said:
He wants a a ceasefire that actually has ramifications for Putin if he breaks it, since he's broken every other ceasefire he's ever agreed to.

Bizarre that MAGA thinks Ukraine should give up $500 billion in minerals to the US, give Putin 20% of the country, and have zero guarantees, that Putin isn't going to rearm and attack in 5 years.

I'd honestly get your water tested for lead contamination.
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As much as that sucks for Ukraine would you risk boots on ground and wider conflict?

What assurances can we give Ukraine against Russia?
 
#85,238
#85,238
BeardedVol said:
He wants a a ceasefire that actually has ramifications for Putin if he breaks it, since he's broken every other ceasefire he's ever agreed to.

Bizarre that MAGA thinks Ukraine should give up $500 billion in minerals to the US, give Putin 20 of the country, and have zero guarantees, that Putin isn't going to rearm and attack in 5 years.

I'd honestly get your water tested for lead contamination.
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I think its more that "MAGA" doesn't care what happens, and is tired of another money pit.

Was wanting out of Afghanistan 20 years into it wanting the taliban to win?
was wanting out of Iraq 20 years into it wanting ISIS to win?

Sometimes its just about not throwing good money after bad money. or not doing the same thing that has been failing/not giving us the results we want or like.
many of us are just tired of seeing US money go into wars that don't impact us here at home.

we would probably feel differently if we weren't so in debt, and if we didn't have a constant list of wars we were bankrolling.
 
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#85,239
#85,239
KB5252 said:
The only way you can give security assurances is to bottom line provide boots on ground. We can not and should not agree to that. If Europe want to be so stupid as to risk that there's not much we can do.

As much as I hate to admit it there's not much the we can do without risking a wider conflict.
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So give them NATO membership, or give them NATO article 5 equivalent, since Russia only invades non-NATO members.
 
#85,240
#85,240
BeardedVol said:
That's what "deferring to Europe" got us, a full-on invasion of Ukraine 8 years later.
www.bbc.com

Angela Merkel rejects criticism over Russia gas deals

The former German chancellor, who quit politics three years ago, speaks to the BBC in a rare interview.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
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since when did "we" become Ukraine?

It got Ukraine, and maybe Europe that invasion. but it got us diddly squat but another hundreds billion of dollars gone for no return.
 
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#85,243
#85,243
KB5252 said:
The only way you can give security assurances is to bottom line provide boots on ground. We can not and should not agree to that. If Europe want to be so stupid as to risk that there's not much we can do.

As much as I hate to admit it there's not much the we can do without risking a wider conflict.
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I'm not sure about the context of the discussion. In say the 1994 agreement for instance, security assurances was setup more for what countries couldn't do as a generalization. A security guarantee would be more akin to doing something for them, meaning provide defense and support. The reason why the Ukraine wanted assurances is because at that time it was a possibility that the U.S. and other countries might invade the Ukraine to go get the nukes in addition to the Russians concerns.

That is at least my understanding of the context of assurances and guarantees, someone is free to correct if wrong though.
 
#85,244
#85,244
BeardedVol said:
He wants a a ceasefire that actually has ramifications for Putin if he breaks it, since he's broken every other ceasefire he's ever agreed to.
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Ramifications from whom? The US? Why would we open the door to a war with Russia for the absolute benefit of the Ukrainians? We aren't doing that for any of the other conflict zones in the world right now, why is Ukraine so special that we should send our kids to die over there?
BeardedVol said:
Bizarre that MAGA thinks Ukraine should give up $500 billion in minerals to the US, give Putin 20% of the country, and have zero guarantees, that Putin isn't going to rearm and attack in 5 years.
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Don't you think the best security guarantee America could give Ukraine is commitments to development and infrastructure that would assist with a half trillion dollars worth of American business interests in the Ukraine? See, e.g., Kuwait, 1990. Do we really think that was a war for "democracy?"
(Not that I am for this, but those wanting the US to protect Ukraine should be behind it 100%.)
BeardedVol said:
I'd honestly get your water tested for lead contamination.
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Just gonna leave this ^^^ without further comment; it speaks for itself.
 
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#85,245
#85,245
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRus...sl/ua_pov_and_then_tell_putin_heres_our_plan/

The new plan, add more sanctions, and more weapons.

Vance is like, there are no more weapons and you're basically out of meat. Starmer just keeps proposing the U.S. backstop (and now he is saying more defenses for the Ukraine) which has been rejected by the U.S. in which the Russians will probably reject, further which they won't even sit down with. Macron is talking about ceasefire where their would be boots on the ground. The problem with all this... those aren't peace deals.
 
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#85,247
#85,247
BeardedVol said:
He wants a a ceasefire that actually has ramifications for Putin if he breaks it, since he's broken every other ceasefire he's ever agreed to.

Bizarre that MAGA thinks Ukraine should give up $500 billion in minerals to the US, give Putin 20% of the country, and have zero guarantees, that Putin isn't going to rearm and attack in 5 years.

I'd honestly get your water tested for lead contamination.
Click to expand...

Is Zelensky going to call for Europe to stop buying NG and other petroleum products from Russia? Outside of cutting off all Russian imports of oil/NG what other "ramifications" are there? Hell, Ukraine didn't stop buying NG from Russia until Jan this year.
 
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#85,248
#85,248
BeardedVol said:
So give them NATO membership, or give them NATO article 5 equivalent, since Russia only invades non-NATO members.
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That's been a red line for Russia though. If it's part of the negotiation with Russia and they concede this then fine, I don't have an issue.

But there is no leverage, going to be a tough sell and not something that can be invoked without risking expanding this conflict.
 
#85,249
#85,249
PEPPERJAX said:
$500 billion in minerals sounds like a good start for the US.
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I was thinking about this myself. Once we reach the point of setting up shop pulling valuables out of the Ukraine we're actually invested in protecting those resources. Even under the most cynical view of "F the Ukrainians, we want the resources!" that's still the case.
 
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