War in Ukraine

#979
#979
Let me make it clear on my position. The US needs to stay out of this mess. The issue is this administration is weak and Putin knows it. So since he senses and opportunity he is pressing these buttons. Weakness invites agression.
 
#981
#981
BreatheUT said:
Let me make it clear on my position. The US needs to stay out of this mess. The issue is this administration is weak and Putin knows it. So since he senses and opportunity he is pressing these buttons. Weakness invites agression.
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It does invite aggression.

Going to be some innocent Ukrainians lose their lives because people hate mean tweets.
 
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#983
#983
BreatheUT said:
Let me make it clear on my position. The US needs to stay out of this mess. The issue is this administration is weak and Putin knows it. So since he senses and opportunity he is pressing these buttons. Weakness invites agression.
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What has Biden done on the Ukraine situation that is weak? What would you do?
 
#984
#984
Hunerwadel said:
What has Biden done on the Ukraine situation that is weak? What would you do?
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You can't see the forest for the trees. It's the big picture. It is everything else. It is an almost universal failure that this administration has had an ineffective 1st year across all spectrums and even from the outside someone like Putin recognizes this including all of the clueless saps in the administration.
 
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#988
#988
BreatheUT said:
You can't see the forest for the trees. It's the big picture. It is everything else. It is an almost universal failure that this administration has had an ineffective 1st year across all spectrums and even from the outside someone like Putin recognizes this including all of the clueless saps in the administration.
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Putin is making this move because he fears NATO and the US. He didn't have to do anything with Trump in office. He had nothing to fear. In fact Trump was trying to weaken NATO for him. So I don't agree with your assessment.
 
#989
#989
Hunerwadel said:
Putin is making this move because he fears NATO and the US. He didn't have to do anything with Trump in office. He had nothing to fear. In fact Trump was trying to weaken NATO for him. So I don't agree with your assessment.
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Clearly I don't agree with yours. You make a move when you don't fear the consequences. The Chinese have already embarrassed this administration. All the world saw the debacle in Afghanistan. And you're making the case Putin is scared. Putin wants to unite Russia with old alliances of the old Soviet Union. The same reason he made a move in 2014.
 
#990
#990
Hunerwadel said:
Putin is making this move because he fears NATO and the US. He didn't have to do anything with Trump in office. He had nothing to fear. In fact Trump was trying to weaken NATO for him. So I don't agree with your assessment.
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Remind me exactly where Putin moved to expand his territory while Trump was in office? And in the only conflict directly with them while Trump was in office was in Syria in 2018 we whacked around 200 to 300 Russian mercs from the Wagner group that Putin likes to use when he doesn’t want the Russian flag attached directly to his BS
 
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#991
#991
BreatheUT said:
Clearly I don't agree with yours. You make a move when you don't fear the consequences. The Chinese have already embarrassed this administration. All the world saw the debacle in Afghanistan. And you're making the case Putin is scared. Putin wants to unite Russia with old alliances of the old Soviet Union. The same reason he made a move in 2014.
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In Putin's mind, he can either take steps to have control in Ukraine or he can let NATO come in and have control there.

Both actions have consequences. Which one he ends up taking is a matter of which consequences he fears less. IMO, Putin fears the consequences of NATO expansion more than the consequences of an incursion into Ukraine. Putin is petrified of NATO expansion; I don't think there's any doubt about that. He talks about how bad NATO expansion is every chance he gets and has for close to 20 years now.
 
#992
#992
05_never_again said:
In Putin's mind, he can either take steps to have control in Ukraine or he can let NATO come in and have control there.

Both actions have consequences. Which one he ends up taking is a matter of which consequences he fears less. IMO, Putin fears the consequences of NATO expansion more than the consequences of an incursion into Ukraine. Putin is petrified of NATO expansion; I don't think there's any doubt about that. He talks about how bad NATO expansion is every chance he gets and has for close to 20 years now.
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You made my point. Of course he doesn't want NATO to expand but he threatens war when he thinks he can get away with it. Do you think Ukraine just started working on this in the last year?
 
#993
#993
Someone remind me, exactly what do we lose if Russia takes over Ukraine? Why should we lose one single life to defend Ukraine?
 
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#996
#996
BreatheUT said:
You made my point. Of course he doesn't want NATO to expand but he threatens war when he thinks he can get away with it. Do you think Ukraine just started working on this in the last year?
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You said "you make a move when you don't fear the consequences." My argument essentially is that he does fear consequences (just not the consequences you think), so he might make a move. I think he does fear the consequences of going to war with Ukraine, but not as much as he fears Ukraine becoming a NATO member.

Should Biden should make credible threats to go to war with Russia over Ukraine so that Putin doesn't act? There's an attempt to run a "Putin wants to invade because Biden is so weak" narrative in this thread, but does anybody actually advocate the United States going to war with Russia over this?
 
#998
#998
05_never_again said:
You said "you make a move when you don't fear the consequences." My argument essentially is that he does fear consequences (just not the consequences you think), so he might make a move.

Should Biden should make credible threats to go to war with Russia over Ukraine so that Putin doesn't act?
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Threat or not...you don't go to war with Russia. If I'm Russia or any adversary, I look at this buffoonish administration and see it's the same red line administration as before. The last time they went into Ukraine.
 
#999
#999
Hunerwadel said:
Putin is making this move because he fears NATO and the US. He didn't have to do anything with Trump in office. He had nothing to fear. In fact Trump was trying to weaken NATO for him. So I don't agree with your assessment.
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You’re saying he had nothing to fear under Trump - but didn’t invade Ukraine

And you’re saying Putin is now afraid - so in fear he is going to invade Ukraine

?
 
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