War in Ukraine

#1,028
#1,028
85SugarVol said:
You’re saying he had nothing to fear under Trump - but didn’t invade Ukraine

And you’re saying Putin is now afraid - so in fear he is going to invade Ukraine

?
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He had nothing to fear under Trump. Trump was undermining NATO from the get go. I believe Trump personally afraid of Putin. Did you see that ludicrous display in Helsinki.
 
#1,032
#1,032
Burhead said:
Good god Biden just put his foot in his mouth and completely lost his damn mind during that press conference. The Kremlin must be loving this crazy old man.
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Yep a clear green light to consolidate the lands he is already occupying and not even a yellow light on further advances. He’s a moron.
 
#1,034
#1,034
BreatheUT said:
Clearly I don't agree with yours. You make a move when you don't fear the consequences. The Chinese have already embarrassed this administration. All the world saw the debacle in Afghanistan. And you're making the case Putin is scared. Putin wants to unite Russia with old alliances of the old Soviet Union. The same reason he made a move in 2014.
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Afghanistan was a debacle under 4 administrations. Getting out was always going to be messy. Biden was just the one who was there at the end.
Putin didn't make the move under Trump because Trump was undermining NATO. If Trump had 4 more years Putin could have probably taken Ukraine with a marching band. Actually he could probably have taken them and several other former Russian states.
 
#1,036
#1,036
Hunerwadel said:
He had nothing to fear under Trump. Trump was undermining NATO from the get go. I believe Trump personally afraid of Putin. Did you see that ludicrous display in Helsinki.
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Hold on now - you’re still in battle mode. I’m just trying to understand your position better.

I agree with you directionally on Trump/NATO.

Putin didn’t fear Trump - so he behaved
Putin does fear now - so he is invading

Is that the gist?
 
#1,037
#1,037
85SugarVol said:
Hold on now - you’re still in battle mode. I’m just trying to understand your position better.

I agree with you directionally on Trump/NATO.

Putin didn’t fear Trump - so he behaved
Putin does fear now - so he is invading

Is that the gist?
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How so?
 
#1,038
#1,038
Burhead said:
And in the process allowed the death camps to keep burning. Look some wars are justified and others are not. I don't think World War 2 has ever been a war that wasn't justified. The world is better off without the Third Reich and Imperial Japan.
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This.

The repetitive “this is not our problem” is too simplistic of a reply. I don’t know if it is our problem or not but it more than likely will be at some point in time whether you want it or not.
 
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#1,039
#1,039
This is a Ukraine problem not a U.S. problem. We are not the World’s police force and have wasted trillions of dollars as well as thousands of American lives in foreign nations that has net few positive results
 
#1,040
#1,040
landscapingvol said:
This is a Ukraine problem not a U.S. problem. We are not the World’s police force and have wasted trillions of dollars as well as thousands of American lives in foreign nations that has net few positive results
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Like it or not we have a vested interest in European peace and security. We have see the results of two world wars being fought there to allow another war to erupt.
 
#1,041
#1,041
allvol123 said:
This.

The repetitive “this is not our problem” is too simplistic of a reply. I don’t know if it is our problem or not but it more than likely will be at some point in time whether you want it or not.
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It isn’t our problem neither was Iraq, Korea, or Vietnam; Afghanistan was debatable. What’s the end game here? If Ukrainians aren’t willing to die for their freedom then it doesn’t matter how many billions of dollars we waste or lives we commit for their independence because it will inevitably fail.
 
#1,042
#1,042
landscapingvol said:
It isn’t our problem neither was Iraq, Korea, or Vietnam; Afghanistan was debatable. What’s the end game here? If Ukrainians aren’t willing to die for their freedom then it doesn’t matter how many billions of dollars we waste or lives we commit for their independence because it will inevitably fail.
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Who says they aren’t? If they are and need help then that is a bad decision to watch them lose while reaching for the correct choice.

What people are going to form alliances with someone that doesn’t assist them when needed?

The world is tiny now, letting authoritarian regimes expand will inevitably get you sucked in.
 
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#1,043
#1,043
landscapingvol said:
It isn’t our problem neither was Iraq, Korea, or Vietnam; Afghanistan was debatable. What’s the end game here? If Ukrainians aren’t willing to die for their freedom then it doesn’t matter how many billions of dollars we waste or lives we commit for their independence because it will inevitably fail.
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But they are fighting and dying to protect their territory they just need the tools to defeat the enemy. They are not asking for American or NATO troops to fight for them, that's the key.
 
#1,044
#1,044
Only American interest in this is oil/gas (ironic). Russia is NOT some Germanic empire seeker that can do Germanic or USSR things. They have neither the military or economic capability to invade anyone but a very geographically close formerly aligned USSR membership. It would be travesty for a WW3 occurrence to happenstance because of entangled alliances. Just Ukraine alone would bleed them literally and figuratively.
 
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#1,045
#1,045
Burhead said:
Like it or not we have a vested interest in European peace and security. We have see the results of two world wars being fought there to allow another war to erupt.
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The first WW was complete unnecessary and unjustified by any measure. We had no real reasons to join it other than money and debt. No one would argue against WW2 but this has nothing in common with WW2. When do we learn our lessons from Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, and Afghanistan? You are welcome to shoulder a rifle and stand in solidarity with the Ukrainians but to ask another family to do that in a war that the US has no business in is unjust
 
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#1,047
#1,047
landscapingvol said:
The first WW was complete unnecessary and unjustified by any measure. We had no real reasons to join it other than money and debt. No one would argue against WW2 but this has nothing in common with WW2. When do we learn our lessons from Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, and Afghanistan? You are welcome to shoulder a rifle and stand in solidarity with the Ukrainians but to ask another family to do that in a war that the US has no business in is unjust
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Once someone enlists then they have made the choice to fill a duty when required.
 
#1,048
#1,048
Burhead said:
Like it or not we have a vested interest in European peace and security. We have see the results of two world wars being fought there to allow another war to erupt.
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Yet the biggest national economic leader of the EU is "crickets".

Good heavens...just as our FF left the "wars and oppression" of 18th century European continent, we are still sucked in with entangled alliance.
 
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#1,049
#1,049
Orangeburst said:
Yet the biggest national economic leader of the EU is "crickets".

Good heavens...just as our FF left the "wars and oppression" of 18th century European continent, we are still sucked in with entangled alliance.
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Do you believe we can sustain ourselves with no alliances?
 
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