War in Ukraine

[lawgator1]

Team lefty has a troubling past with regard to Russia and Ukraine as well. The left doesn't just get to wash it's hands of their culpability here. You can look past it if you want to continue the my side is better farce but it only makes you a bigger stooge.

Sure, we all could have done a better job over the last 3 decades of heeding advice that Putin at the end of the day is an aggressive actor capable of this.

But in the last 5 to 10 years the right has been particularly vocal about dismissing those concerns and undermining our European alliances, including NATO. Pretty bad look for them when the stalwarts of the party (Trump) and their mouthpiece (Fox) particularly got this wrong. Waaaaaayyyy wrong.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

YUUUUUUGGGGEEEW

This thing has been rolling around the country terrorizing as it goes since the start, so I hope it's true.

 

[volinbham]

And I generally agree with Huff when if comes to this, the government should stay tf out of the free market. In our electronic age however, it's just as much about national security to have the capacity to build and maintain a supply of necessary electronic components. It's not really a free market if China takes Taiwan and we're not able to get parts to say a critical component to the computer of a submarine or airplane (for example).

I agree with the bolded and I generally favor free markets but I recognize that the free market efficiencies (and resulting lower costs) work so long as players operate in good faith. When players exploit power/dependence issues other costs get introduced to the system and a total cost analysis might show that maintaining domestic production is actually the lower total cost solution.

 

[volinbham]

Sure, we all could have done a better job over the last 3 decades of heeding advice that Putin at the end of the day is an aggressive actor capable of this.

But in the last 5 to 10 years the right has been particularly vocal about dismissing those concerns and undermining our European alliances, including NATO. Pretty bad look for them when the stalwarts of the party (Trump) and their mouthpiece (Fox) particularly got this wrong. Waaaaaayyyy wrong.

I disagree - it's a matter of perspective. Suggesting that NATO members share their part of the burden as agreed to is not undermining - it actually is a pathway to strengthening the alliance rather than having it increasingly dependent on the whims of one party (the one paying the bills and controlling the assets)

 

[Orange defense]

Trump to Putin: Don’t do it Don’t even think about it.
Putin to Trump: ok.
Trump in White House: no invasion.
Putin: kept his word
Biden in Whitehouse: Putin invades Ukraine.
Putin: Screw you weak old man Biden. He ain’t doing nothing.

Not paying attention, huh?

 

[DC_Vol]

At least in the case of China, for the most part we have them make our cheap plastic crap instead of supply us with an inordinately large portion of something vital like energy. There are a couple things they make for us that they shouldn't be (like certain pharma and medical supplies) but we could bring that production back either here or to a friendly (like Mexico) pretty quickly.

Electronics (including chips), medication, and many other critical goods are moving through a supply chain that includes Chinese manufacturing.

We’ve done most of this ourselves from years of focusing on only lowest cost. An entire generation of sourcing people think sourcing means sending your designs to a China shop, let them work out the kinks, and then own the manufacturing. Low cost and you don’t have to deal with the headaches of running production!

Try convincing a company they need to pay more than their competitors for a certain part or finished good even to hedge their own supply chain risk. 99% if the time it’s a dead end conversation. Clean sheet it and get the lowest landed cost. It’s all that matters.

There is the consumer side, too. End users who make decisions based off of lowest cost. This was inevitable with globalization. It’s human nature. And it’s the argument a lot of people make for protectionism. It has its own valid upsides.

 

[Septic]

Trump to Putin: Don’t do it Don’t even think about it.
Putin to Trump: ok.
Trump in White House: no invasion.
Putin: kept his word
Biden in Whitehouse: Putin invades Ukraine.
Putin: Screw you weak old man Biden. He ain’t doing nothing.

Save your nonsense for another thread, plenty of partisan bickering elsewhere.

Read the room.

 

[Velo Vol]

Or go back to the Ukraine 1 thread. You can see what is being said now, back then. It's no revisionist bs.

That president ran under the context of closer ties to the west. Days comes to sign, he drops the west and signs with Russia. That pissed people off. The people were shot upon and the president fled to Russia, I am sure all of that was just some unplanned coincidence by Russia, and that only Nulands cookies matter.

That was a classic.

 

[Vol737]

I'm sure they're feverishly working to get the information out there.

Of course. Big losses to the Ukrainian military would only embolden their protesters at home. I’ll bet the Russian people have little to no idea of the numbers we’ve seen that have been posted.

 

[DC_Vol]

YUUUUUUGGGGEEEW

I’ve got money on the operators of this thing being executed on the spot.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

I’ll bet the Russian people have little to no idea of the numbers we’ve seen that have been posted.

This is incorrect. The hackavists took down all state run media in russia, and have been posting the daily loses instead.

 

[Vol423]

We are... right here in the good ole usa. UK is also rapidly trying to develop its own chip, and os based on linux.

Those plans are years away from coming to fruition.

 

[Paper_Towel]

View attachment 436575

It’s fully-loaded, too.

 

[Vol737]

This is incorrect. The hackavists took down all state run media in russia, and have been posting the daily loses instead.

What are your sources? Asking because I’m limited on social media. That may be a good thing if those numbers are being made available to the Russian citizenry.

 

[NCFisher]

And likewise, your take is even more pathetic...even dumb. Justifying faking truths to garner support...where does it stop? Putin now exterminating Ukranians in concentration camps?

For one, you don't know the post you used to declare it a hoax is genuine; that's "dumb". How do you know she isn't or is the woman in some/all the photos? You don't, eh? Are there no bloodied women in Ukraine? Why would it matter if one had posed to represent them? Not at all.

Where it stops is with the aggressor nation leaving. Until then, ANY action Ukraine takes against them, including PsyOps is justified. Any - EVERY - nation in conflict does so, period. Ukraine would be "dumb" not to.

 

[Septic]

I’ve got money on the operators of this thing being executed on the spot.

Wait till Russia confiscates all the Nlaws and Stingers from the Ukranians after they get overwhelmed.

Seems like a smart engineer would have come up with a way to manufacture all these weapons to not work on NATO or civilian assets.

 

[05_never_again]

There are multiple reasons, but the impetus for the ongoing shut-down plan was largely driven by Fukushima.

...which is dumb. I could see the logic/fear if Fukushima blew up on its own, but the nuclear incident there was caused by an earthquake/tsunami. Either of those a big risk in Germany? lol

 

[Burhead]

Sooner or later some nervous Russian conscript is going to shoot into a crowd of civilians who are protesting the occupation.

 

[Velo Vol]

I hadn't heard about this. Unsure how widespread the jamming, etc. actually is.

 

[allvol123]

Sooner or later some nervous Russian conscript is going to shoot into a crowd of civilians who are protesting the occupation.

Trudeau be like get then protestors out of the streets, blocking traffic.

 

[Septic]

Sooner or later some nervous Russian conscript is going to shoot into a crowd of civilians who are protesting the occupation.

Goes to show that A) the Russians don't want to be there and 2) how the fear of commiting war crimes on camera is somewhat resonant. In 1942, that crowd would have been piles of bodies and those trucks would have had blood on the grill and a dented hood.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

This is all stuff that's been happening. Anon declared cyber war on russia. It's gotten so bad that I saw a report Putin had to shut down thier state run media. Believe me, the russians are not ok. They have been protesting every night. Defying police. I saw a report that Putin has moved to a bunker in Siberia. I'm not worried about it because if he does what he threatens even that is not going save his ass. It's more for self protection. At this point Putin is taking out all media and information outlets as a mean to quell the insurrection.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

since the black out and cyber war started i have bigley quit social altogether. Today I'm painting a room instead .

 

[Weezer]

Did you have this concern when we were destroying Syria?

I'm gonna preface this with I actually like you Ras, even if I disagree with you. I'm sad any time innocent people are killed. That's a sad thing. I've already stated I think the U.S. involves itself too much in foreign affairs. I'm not a fan of us going into Syria, or Iraq, or even Afghanistan beyond seeking UBL. But what's happening in the Ukraine right now does not compare to Syria, and your misguided attempts to defend your man-crush Putin by trying to draw parallels is weak. I don't disagree with your takes on our politicians, but I completely disagree with your take on Putin and Russia. Putin is a little bitch trying to look strong for his people, because strength is what the Russians respect. But he's doing it by invading a sovereign nation and slaughtering its populace. The fact you seem to somehow think it's justified sickens me. I think you're a better person than that. I hope you're a better person than that. NOTHING justifies what Putin is doing right now. NOTHING. And your continuous word salads attempting to do so are annoying and pathetic. Please stop.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You can’t call them “near nuclear” if the sanctions did not effect the Russian oil/natural gas exports. The sanctions were weak. It would be like sanctions against Columbia that don’t include cocaine and coffee

That is one if the reasons why it is head scratching to me trying to make sense of the propaganda by the media, yet these weak sanctions on the other hand. If it was Russia being trapped in a quagmire, these guys in the West would have been laying the hammer down and going for the kill shot by now.