War in Ukraine

[LouderVol]

I’ll leave this here for those interested in researching how the situation got to where it is today.

Amazon.com: Ukraine on Fire : Oliver Stone, Vladimir Putin, Viktor Yanukovych, Vitaliy Zakharchenko, Robert Parry, Viktor Yushchenko, Igor Lopatonok: Movies & TV

Or go back to the Ukraine 1 thread. You can see what is being said now, back then. It's no revisionist bs.

That president ran under the context of closer ties to the west. Days comes to sign, he drops the west and signs with Russia. That pissed people off. The people were shot upon and the president fled to Russia, I am sure all of that was just some unplanned coincidence by Russia, and that only Nulands cookies matter.

Ras has the same blind spot he blames the rest of us for. He is willing to accept ANY bs that paints the US in a bad light or responsible. No matter how convoluted his reasoning is or the Occam Razor of pointing out Russias own involvement.

It's why he has me blocked. I read the bs he posted and pointed out the lack of internal consistency and he got tired of me.

The truth is always in the middle, Ras over corrects the "other" way and thinks he has the right of it.

 

[Pacer92]

Just no; this is a pathetic take.
There's one ***** truth here and that is Russia invaded Ukraine. I don't give a shite what means Ukraine uses to garner support; they have absolute moral right of way here.

And likewise, your take is even more pathetic...even dumb. Justifying faking truths to garner support...where does it stop? Putin now exterminating Ukranians in concentration camps?

 

[Paper_Towel]

YUUUUUUGGGGEEEW

 

[05_never_again]

The truly dumb part was decommissioning its nuclear power plants.

Yep.

For some reason they saw it as an either/or proposition...if they bought more NG, they needed to shut down the nuke plants.

 

[hog88]

I'd be far more concerned with him using a tactical nuke an ICBM. Pooty's already demonstrated a willingness to use nasty stuff in urban areas without regard to who gets caught in the collateral damage.

He's a thug in a suit and he's not going anywhere until his own people throw him out.

Tactical or strategic, a nuke strike has to be met with similar retaliation. Living under the threat of nuclear holocaust allows the governments to assume more control and power over it's people.

 

[Septic]

At least in the case of China, for the most part we have them make our cheap plastic crap instead of supply us with an inordinately large portion of something vital like energy. There are a couple things they make for us that they shouldn't be (like certain pharma and medical supplies) but we could bring that production back either here or to a friendly (like Mexico) pretty quickly.

We need to get back in the business of making computer chips, if this economic whoopin' that Russia is taking isn't enough to deter Xi from Taiwan, we'd be royally effed if China had the monopoly on that market.

 

[RikidyBones]

Where the hell is that coming from? That's a BS statement with no factual basis. The SWIFT exclusions can't be done without the US.

And you don't really know what's happening on the ground and where certain "advisors" might be located.

Here you go, chief.

 

[Vol423]

But do they today? Historically, they have been a second half team, so to speak. However, just from what we get to see, it does not appear many of their fighters are "all in" on this offensive. Hard to come out swinging if you do not want to be in the fight in the first place.

This is a ridiculous idea that keeps getting repeated in this thread on a daily basis. Russian soldiers' hearts may not be in the fight. However, they are in Ukraine, and they don't want to die. Therefore, they will fight as hard as they can. The alternative is they die.

 

[RikidyBones]

You're noticing this also? And I don't give the Europeans much credit, either. Have they shut down Nordstream 1 yet?

Not sure. As long as countries are still buying their main export, I don't see them as serious in their outrage.

 

[Septic]

Tactical or strategic, a nuke strike has to be met with similar retaliation. Living under the threat of nuclear holocaust allows the governments to assume more control and power over it's people.

That's why Pootin's got to go. We can't have another despot who uses a nuclear threat for offensive manipulation rather than for MAD deterrence.

 

[KB5252]

Because it's important not to whitewash where the GOP (largely) stood on NATO, Russia and Ukraine until the invasion actually happened. Trumpers wearing shirts saying they support Russia over Dems, Trump withholding support/extorting Ukraine for non-existent dirt on Biden, Trump wanting to exit NATO, Tucker flat out saying he was cheering for Russia, etc etc. That's the ugly history you guys have. Don't act like the party didn't dance with the devil.

Team lefty has a troubling past with regard to Russia and Ukraine as well. The left doesn't just get to wash it's hands of their culpability here. You can look past it if you want to continue the my side is better farce but it only makes you a bigger stooge.

 

[Volbucky]

Regarding history…Russia ALWAYS struggles early in a war but soon finds its footing. See especially the Winter War of 1939 against Finland. Hitler was so convinced of Soviet ineptitude that he soon launched his invasion with (after outstanding initial success) turned into Germany‘s greates historical disaster. The Swedish invasion of 1709 was another example. And of course, the most infamous example of early Russian failure followed by ultimate strength was Napoleon‘s 1812 Invasion. They do not train or prepare well, but they are ruthless in purging failing leaders once ineptitude is seen and if they stay in a conflict long enough, their limitless manpower reserves will eventually tell.

Lol Russian much?

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

We need to get back in the business of making computer chips, if this economic whoopin' that Russia is taking isn't enough to deter Xi from Taiwan, we'd be royally effed if China had the monopoly on that market.

We are... right here in the good ole usa. UK is also rapidly trying to develop its own chip, and os based on linux.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

Do I hear a "thank you Brandon"?

 

[volinbham]

We need to get back in the business of making computer chips, if this economic whoopin' that Russia is taking isn't enough to deter Xi from Taiwan, we'd be royally effed if China had the monopoly on that market.

Huff gonna tell you about free markets and how this is anti-free market.

The thing about free-markets is they don't always produce the most efficient solution when one party decides to leverage the inevitable dependence that international division of labor/markets creates.

 

[Velo Vol]

For some reason they saw it as an either/or proposition...if they bought more NG, they needed to shut down the nuke plants.

There are multiple reasons, but the impetus for the ongoing shut-down plan was largely driven by Fukushima.

 

[utvolpj]

Huff gonna tell you about free markets and how this is anti-free market.

The thing about free-markets is they don't always produce the most efficient solution when one party decides to leverage the inevitable dependence that international division of labor/markets creates.

I don't think it's anti free market to look at potential supply chain issues and see if they can actually work within your needs. Having a single point of failure is never a good idea yet we've allowed it to happen with critical goods.

 

[Godfatha]

There are multiple reasons, but the impetus for the ongoing shut-down plan was largely driven by Fukushima.

Kind of dumb on their part. When the last time Germany got hit with a tsunami?

 

[hog88]

That's why Pootin's got to go. We can't have another despot who uses a nuclear threat for offensive manipulation rather than for MAD deterrence.

Putin isn't the only head of state that has to go, he's not operating in a vacuum.

 

[Septic]

Huff gonna tell you about free markets and how this is anti-free market.

The thing about free-markets is they don't always produce the most efficient solution when one party decides to leverage the inevitable dependence that international division of labor/markets creates.

And I generally agree with Huff when if comes to this, the government should stay tf out of the free market. In our electronic age however, it's just as much about national security to have the capacity to build and maintain a supply of necessary electronic components. It's not really a free market if China takes Taiwan and we're not able to get parts to say a critical component to the computer of a submarine or airplane (for example).

 

[volinbham]

I don't think it's anti free market to look at potential supply chain issues and see if they can actually work within your needs. Having a single point of failure is never a good idea yet we've allowed it to happen with critical goods.

I agree - just saying that the free market purists argue that products should be produced where they are lowest cost and any given country shouldn't be producing things that can be produced cheaper elsewhere.

The purely economic analysis and the principle of ceteris paribus ignores political and power/dependence realities.

 

[Septic]

I don't think it's anti free market to look at potential supply chain issues and see if they can actually work within your needs. Having a single point of failure is never a good idea yet we've allowed it to happen with critical goods.

this.

 

[Orange defense]

Trump to Putin: Don’t do it Don’t even think about it.
Putin to Trump: ok.
Trump in White House: no invasion.
Putin: kept his word
Biden in Whitehouse: Putin invades Ukraine.
Putin: Screw you weak old man Biden. He ain’t doing nothing.

 

[Septic]

I agree - just saying that the free market purists argue that products should be produced where they are lowest cost and any given country shouldn't be producing things that can be produced cheaper elsewhere.

The purely economic analysis and the principle of ceteris paribus ignores political and power/dependence realities.

Nothing is ever black and white.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

YUUUUUUGGGGEEEW