War in Ukraine

[AM64]

The yacht is worth $800 million dollars, correct? Surely the person who bought the vessel purchased insurance as well.

Russian Mafia don't need no insurance. They break body parts and make people and things disappear when necessary. These are probably KGB or old Soviet thugs or descendants. Got a feeling they make our old "Robber Barons" look like choirboys. If everybody was equally broke and without assets at the breakup, you have to ask how these guys did so well if they weren't somehow connected to the old and the new government. They didn't likely inherit a few million acres from gramps and then discover oil under it while planting cabbage.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The better course would probably just to tell the guy that he and his boat aren't welcome here and he has til sundown to get out of town. In the whole scheme of things you'd have a hard time convincing people that anyone who has amassed that kind of wealth in Russia doesn't have some serious clout going on within the government or criminal organization if there's a difference. Remember when the Soviet Union broke up supposedly nobody had anything, but obviously some people had money or power way beyond mere mortals - and very likely influence similar to Putin from the old days. Screw 'em.

I really hope you guys understand that normalizing theft under the guise of sanctions is setting the table for us here in America in the near future. What if someone posts something against a war or COVID mandates or gets accused of spreading misinformation/disinformation? The same people wearing masks and running to get their 15th booster will be right there supporting legislation to block your bank accounts and take your property because of some stance you took.

 

[BowlBrother85]

but it doesn't mean Trump was seeking armed conflict with other countries - just that he had no team picking his people

It means that Trump made a thoughtless hire of someone, just because he had seen the guy on Fox News, and he liked him because he was very critical of Barack Obama. Trump paid no attention to the fact that Bolton was a war hawk. Trump liked Bolton, because Bolton hated Obama. That is it. It really is that simple. This wasn't to fill some insignificant communications role either. This was National Security Advisor.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Lord have mercy - can you not see any advantage in Russia moving from Putin to some other leadership?

Only if the next leader gives the West as much hell as he seems to be doing right now. At some point, we have to abandon these ambitions of trying to control Eurasia to achieve some globalist agenda. We have our own issues right here in America in case you didn't notice. 2 years to flatten the curve and what not...

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Dude, you're justifying genocide by past actions of others. You're pathetic.

Genocide? Where? When we do this, it is called "collateral damage".

 

[NEO]

Unfortunately, I really do think it was that silly. Again, there are plenty of things to criticize Trump about without having to fabricate s^^t or distort like the media does.

Why do you think Russia invaded?

Curious as to your thoughts.

 

[DC_Vol]

It means that Trump made a thoughtless hire of someone, just because he had seen the guy on Fox News, and he liked him because he was very critical of Barack Obama. Trump paid no attention to the fact that Bolton was a war hawk. Trump liked Bolton, because Bolton hated Obama. That is it. It really is that simple. This wasn't to fill some insignificant communications role either. This was National Security Advisor.

Which war did he start by taking Bolton’s advice? Perhaps Bolton is salty because Trump didn’t take his advice.

 

[Gandalf]

“Russian president, go **** yourself.”

The FU feels good but in reality Putin is just pushing back on them to keep them off balance and (he hopes) keep them from actively aiding Ukraine. Putin is a snarling dog who is barking as loudly as he can at the rest of EU but his bite is having enough work just taking out Ukraine.

Now if he had rolled into Kyiv already and showed an impressive military action, I think everyone could be a bit more concerned, even though the reality is, even if the invasion would have been smooth, the troops are going to be greatly occupied for some time to pacify AKA to hold on to what they gain. As it is, while I dont think the outcome is in doubt in the Ukraine, the seeming losses incurred for it does not make it seem that Russia's conventional land forces are as fierce as thought. Against those with strong naval and air support, they might suffer badly.

People are using their feelz to make strategy and policy and that is never a wise course. This whole global sanctions business makes me uneasy. What is the end goal? Ukraine is already invaded. He will not withdraw unless setbacks in the field dictate it. Meanwhile we are destroying the economy for your average Russian, not good. Better was targeting Putin and the oligarch money. Again, what is the end goal? How does what we are doing make us and our NATO allies safer?

 

[volinbham]

It means that Trump made a thoughtless hire of someone, just because he had seen the guy on Fox News, and he liked him because he was very critical of Barack Obama. Trump paid no attention to the fact that Bolton was a war hawk. Trump liked Bolton, because Bolton hated Obama This wasn't to fill some insignificant communications role either. This was National Security Advisor.

okay

Bolton had appropriate bona fides for the job.

Surely he's not the first POTUS to hire someone because of shared political views and despite Bolton's war hawkishness Trump didn't follow his advice on starting foreign conflicts which ultimately led to Bolton's departure.

Seems like no harm/no foul

 

[volinbham]

Only if the next leader gives the West as much hell as he seems to be doing right now. At some point, we have to abandon these ambitions of trying to control Eurasia to achieve some globalist agenda. We have our own issues right here in America in case you didn't notice. 2 years to flatten the curve and what not...

I think you are conflating issues. Putin isn't the solution to globalist agendas. It's the exemplar of baby and bath water

 

[AM64]

The Russian gas everyone is buying is purchased based on USD. Crashing the ruble in no way effects their net income from sold oil.

True, but somebody receiving our dollars for oil has a lot of income to sink into deflated rubles - and profit twice - once on the back of their own countrymen.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

There's plenty more, but you can't reconcile the actions of this angry, aging dictator through any other lens. It's easier for you to ignore the groundswell of support for Ukraine from the vast majority of it's citizenry who would rather choose to fight and die than roll over and be dictated. So you choose to believe Ukraine had it coming, even if you don't "necessarily" support indiscriminate killing of Innocents for political purposes.....

I don't think the people of Ukraine called for this. I don't believe that Putin had a desire to use military conflict as a preemptive measure. I think the focus was always on hoping to establish a buffer between Russia and NATO by diplomatic means. They had a plan in place with Minsk II and the Ukranian leadership refused to abide by it.

 

[KB5252]

I

I really hope you guys understand that normalizing theft under the guise of sanctions is setting the table for us here in America in the near future. What if someone posts something against a war or COVID mandates or gets accused of spreading misinformation/disinformation? The same people wearing masks and running to get their 15th booster will be right there supporting legislation to block your bank accounts and take your property because of some stance you took.

Sometimes you have to make a stand, maybe it's better to give up your ideals and dreams of the future and subjugate yourself to the whim of another than to die, perhaps it won't be so bad......... But then again what if?

 

[BowlBrother85]

Which war did he start by taking Bolton’s advice? Perhaps Bolton is salty because Trump didn’t take his advice.

That isn't the point.

Donald Trump clearly wanted to follow a non-interventionist approach to foreign affairs. Trump could not have made a more conflicting hire for National Security Advisor than John Bolton. Such an idiot was Trump, that he hired Bolton for one reason: He saw Bolton on Fox News and he liked how Bolton verbally bashed Obama.

Think about the absurd simplicity of that for a moment. That is Trump in a nutshell.

 

[NEO]

I don't think the people of Ukraine called for this. I don't believe that Putin had a desire to use military conflict as a preemptive measure. I think the focus was always on hoping to establish a buffer between Russia and NATO by diplomatic means. They had a plan in place with Minsk II and the Ukranian leadership refused to abide by it.

So you believe Putin views NATO as an enemy and wanted a non nato nation as a buffer between NATO and Russia?

 

[volinbham]

That isn't the point. Donald Trump clearly wanted to follow a non-interventionist approach to foreign affairs. Trump could not have made a more conflicting hire for National Security Advisor than John Bolton. Such an idiot was Trump, that he hired Bolton for one reason: He saw Bolton on Fox News and liked how Bolton bashed Obama. Think about the absurd simplicity of that for a moment. That was Trump in a nutshell.

Or you could consider the fact that Trump needed to fill a cabinet but knew he wouldn't be swayed by them and when Bolton's views conflicted with his he changed course.

He was a complete outsider. He made some expeditious and resultantly bad choices but corrected them as he went.

As I said, no harm/no foul. Trump sucked in many ways but not every single thing he did was the catastrophe you choose to paint

 

[DC_Vol]

That isn't the point. Donald Trump clearly wanted to follow a non-interventionist approach to foreign affairs. Trump could not have made a more conflicting hire for National Security Advisor than John Bolton. Such an idiot was Trump, that he hired Bolton for one reason: He saw Bolton on Fox News and liked how Bolton bashed Obama. Think about the absurd simplicity of that for a moment. That was Trump in a nutshell.

Maybe that’s the reason. If it is was, it was an idiotic reason to hire him.

Then again, maybe it wasn’t. Maybe Trump wanted someone who challenged his way of thinking.

Maybe Bolton said all the right things when he was interviewed.

Maybe he was persuaded by other long time DC operators.

I could keep going. I don’t know the reason, and neither do you.

What we do know is that Trump owns ultimate responsibility for the hire. We can both agree it was a bad one. On the positive side, Trump didn’t follow Bolton down any war path.

 

[KB5252]

I don't think the people of Ukraine called for this. I don't believe that Putin had a desire to use military conflict as a preemptive measure. I think the focus was always on hoping to establish a buffer between Russia and NATO by diplomatic means. They had a plan in place with Minsk II and the Ukranian leadership refused to abide by it.

Because they wanted what they felt was in their best interest.

Why don't you let me come to your home and landscape it however I see fit. Knock a few walls down. Decide your career path while I'm at it.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Why do you think Russia invaded?

Curious as to your thoughts.

Putin pulled an Israeli maneuver and took a preemptive military move to insure that NATO/The West do not use Ukraine as a future staging ground for any future aggressions towards them.

It is obviously an unfortunate set of circumstances.

 

[AM64]

Don't get up in arms when China starts seizing assets owned by Americans when "we don't play by their rules".

That's always been on the table. It's actually pretty stupid to build a plant somewhere like China unless you see it as a disposable asset that you used for short term profits. It's easier for them to seize real property on their soil than steal intellectual property, and theft of intellectual property hasn't been much of a problem for them. It's like accumulating free stuff that somebody else builds for the; and when the time is right, it's theirs. The worst part - our own government would probably pay Apple and whoever for property China seized.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Which war did he start by taking Bolton’s advice? Perhaps Bolton is salty because Trump didn’t take his advice.

And there it is...

 

[AM64]

Also true. No doubt Gates benefits from our system.

Well, Obama certainly said as much - "you didn't make that".

 

[BowlBrother85]

Maybe that’s the reason. If it is was, it was an idiotic reason to hire him.

Then again, maybe it wasn’t. Maybe Trump wanted someone who challenged his way of thinking.

Maybe Bolton said all the right things when he was interviewed.

Maybe he was persuaded by other long time DC operators.

I could keep going. I don’t know the reason, and neither do you.

What we do know is that Trump owns ultimate responsibility for the hire. We can both agree it was a bad one. On the positive side, Trump didn’t follow Bolton down any war path.

When did Trump ever want this? Trump wanted "Yes Men."

 

[DC_Vol]

When did Trump ever want this? Trump wanted "Yes Men."

OK, BB. I don’t want to get in the way of another one of your obsessive rants over Trump. It’s sad how bad he mind ****** you.

Orange man gone. Find your happy place again.

 

[volinbham]

When did Trump ever want this? Trump wanted "Yes Men."

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