War in Ukraine

[AM64]

Can you link anything on that for me? All I’ve found is that they sanctioned him. Having a hard time finding any specifics.

If they have the paper trail, a judge signed off, and he has a right to a trial, I can be a lot warmer towards the actions of the EU.

But if they don’t, this is a really bad precedent

Ask the Ukrainians about bad precedent - don't think there were judges, trials, or any other niceties of law involved there. If your country is a thug and just invaded another country unprovoked, might be a good move to get your ass(ets) out of other countries who take a dim view of the proceedings.

 

[Gandalf]

I really hope you guys understand that normalizing theft under the guise of sanctions is setting the table for us here in America in the near future. What if someone posts something against a war or COVID mandates or gets accused of spreading misinformation/disinformation? The same people wearing masks and running to get their 15th booster will be right there supporting legislation to block your bank accounts and take your property because of some stance you took.

YES! this is what makes me uneasy about the global (western only really) canceling of the Russian economy. We have seen this on smaller scales, some dentist that posts a picture of lion hunting 10 years before and suddenly no longer has a practice. Now its Russia. It isnt that I care 2 figs for Russia (though I think it may actually make us less safe to destroy their economy this rapidly). It is that I am concerned this same power gets turned on conservatives. Trudeau just showed exactly how fast that can happen and that leftists are perfectly willing to do so.

Do none of you actually read the revelations of the exile in the books of Eru`?

 

[AM64]

I would be disappointed if there wasn't good booze and a short brawl. Of course this would need to be followed with LG getting a swirly and thrown off the back under a loud chorus of Rocky Top.

The yacht would have to be planted out behind Calhoun's - couldn't trust anybody here to dock it without wiping out the rest of the Vol Navy.

 

[NEO]

Putin pulled an Israeli maneuver and took a preemptive military move to insure that NATO/The West do not use Ukraine as a future staging ground for any future aggressions towards them.

It is obviously an unfortunate set of circumstances.

But why would Nato attack him?

I can see this logic but which NATO European country has shown the slightest aggressiveness?

Germany was basically partnering with them prior to this.

I just don’t see where the paranoia came from.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The FU feels good but in reality Putin is just pushing back on them to keep them off balance and (he hopes) keep them from actively aiding Ukraine. Putin is a snarling dog who is barking as loudly as he can at the rest of EU but his bite is having enough work just taking out Ukraine.

Now if he had rolled into Kyiv already and showed an impressive military action, I think everyone could be a bit more concerned, even though the reality is, even if the invasion would have been smooth, the troops are going to be greatly occupied for some time to pacify AKA to hold on to what they gain. As it is, while I dont think the outcome is in doubt in the Ukraine, the seeming losses incurred for it does not make it seem that Russia's conventional land forces are as fierce as thought. Against those with strong naval and air support, they might suffer badly.

People are using their feelz to make strategy and policy and that is never a wise course. This whole global sanctions business makes me uneasy. What is the end goal? Ukraine is already invaded. He will not withdraw unless setbacks in the field dictate it. Meanwhile we are destroying the economy for your average Russian, not good. Better was targeting Putin and the oligarch money. Again, what is the end goal? How does what we are doing make us and our NATO allies safer?

How about this. Why don't we try one last time for a diplomatic solution without the Americans and British at the table? It was clear that the US and UK leading up to this were nothing more than agitators in the weeks before, with the British rep not even realizing that Rostov and Voronezh were Russian provinces. Let the Europeans resolve this.

Also, either disband NATO or the US leaves.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

okay

Bolton had appropriate bona fides for the job.

Surely he's not the first POTUS to hire someone because of shared political views and despite Bolton's war hawkishness Trump didn't follow his advice on starting foreign conflicts which ultimately led to Bolton's departure.

Seems like no harm/no foul

Not for a guy that ran on draining the swamp. You don't bring Bolton in the fold if that is your ambition.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Genocide? Where? When we do this, it is called "collateral damage".

You're a pos human being. You're support for this is disturbing. Like I said, I would have once sat a shared a beverage with you. Now I wouldn't want you to be anywhere near me or my family. You're truly are pathetic.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Colonel Douglas Macgregor about the War in Ukraine

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

But why would Nato attack him?

I can see this logic but which NATO European country has shown the slightest aggressiveness?

Germany was basically partnering with them prior to this.

I just don’t see where the paranoia came from.

The UK and US. Its obvious where the aggression is coming from if you look at France and Germany trying to work things our leading up to this conflict. Neither them or Russia wanted the Brits or Yanks involved.

And you need to ask why NATO wasn't blown up after 1991. Those same entities were working on trying to rob, rape and pillage Russia while Yeltsin was there. Putin, similar to Trump here, was not part of their game plan and he ended up being a disruptive figure that stopped their racket.

 

[volinbham]

Colonel Douglas Macgregor about the War in Ukraine

I saw this live - it's one view but it certainly ignores the deadly tactics being used if his assessment of Putin's motives are correct.

I think Putin's own words also contradict some of the scope of this assessment

 

[NEO]

You're a pos human being. You're support for this is disturbing. Like I said, I would have once sat a shared a beverage with you. Now I wouldn't want you to be anywhere near me or my family. You're truly are pathetic.

I understand your stance is completely opposite than his but his collateral damage comment is sadly true.

We have raised multiple generations of terrorist in the Middle East who lost their innocent parents in drone strikes and terrorist used that anger to brainwash them against us.

I do not agree with Russia invading Ukraine and I do believe war crimes are happening but no nation that has ever bombed another can say their hands are clean from killing innocent civilians. Sadly, even us.

 

[DC_Vol]

How about this. Why don't we try one last time for a diplomatic solution without the Americans and British at the table? It was clear that the US and UK leading up to this were nothing more than agitators in the weeks before, with the British rep not even realizing that Rostov and Voronezh were Russian provinces. Let the Europeans resolve this.

Also, either disband NATO or the US leaves.

The diplomatic solution would have needed to be simply the Ukraine does not join NATO. The other Eastern European nations are water under the bridge. Can’t really put the toothpaste back in the tube there.

That’s no longer a workable arrangement now that Putin is annihilating the Ukraine. I don’t really see a viable path out at this point.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I understand your stance is completely opposite than his but his collateral damage comment is sadly true.

We have raised multiple generations of terrorist in the Middle East who lost their innocent parents in drone strikes and terrorist used that anger to brainwash them against us.

I do not agree with Russia invading Ukraine and I do believe war crimes are happening but no nation that has ever bombed another can say their hands are clean from killing innocent civilians. Sadly, even us.

He's intentionally targeting civilians. This is not collateral damage. Anyone that thinks it's collateral damage is extremely naive.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You're a pos human being. You're support for this is disturbing. Like I said, I would have once sat a shared a beverage with you. Now I wouldn't want you to be anywhere near me or my family. You're truly are pathetic.

Keep that same energy as you think about the hundreds of thousands or possibly millions that we have killed, injured or displaced over the last 30 years to achieve whatever political (or commercial) goals we wanted to achieve in the ME. Don't just cry in your beer in 2022 over Ukraine. Let's cry for the lives ruined elsewhere in our name.

Or, don't even go that far. Look at what your country is doing to you and your fellow Americans right here. Our Constitution likely isn't worth the paper it's written on at this point, stolen elections, businesses shutdown by govt Karens, destruction of nuclear families, millions aborted since Roe v Wade, and a hollowed out economy where our industrial capacity was outsourced to one allegedly enemy (China) and our energy needs are having to be filled by another allegedly enemy (Russia).

You're so mad at me, yet give all of this other nonsense a pass. You have far more to be worried about than me or Putin.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

I saw this live - it's one view but it certainly ignores the deadly tactics being used if his assessment of Putin's motives are correct.

I think Putin's own words also contradict some of the scope of this assessment

I had remembered seeing it and tried to find the clip. I had to resort to Odysee. I’m not sure anyone knows what Putins endgame is here other than Putin. Hoping for peace.

 

[volinbham]

You have far more to be worried about than me or Putin.

you are using words to make a point; Putin is killing and has killed instead of using words.

you and he are not comparable in any form or fashion.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The diplomatic solution would have needed to be simply the Ukraine does not join NATO. The other Eastern European nations are water under the bridge. Can’t really put the toothpaste back in the tube there.

That’s no longer a workable arrangement now that Putin is annihilating the Ukraine. I don’t really see a viable path out at this point.

I think that was a missed opportunity for NATO if they really wanted to establish peace. Nothing you said was unreasonable. Both sides would have been a position where they got a little bit of what they wanted and gave up a little more than what they wanted. That is how fair negotiations work.

 

[InVOLuntary]

The diplomatic solution would have needed to be simply the Ukraine does not join NATO. The other Eastern European nations are water under the bridge. Can’t really put the toothpaste back in the tube there.

That’s no longer a workable arrangement now that Putin is annihilating the Ukraine. I don’t really see a viable path out at this point.

I'll also add the the US has went out of its way to avoid collateral damage. There's been numerous reports where they've had opportunities to take out high value targets and declined because of potential innocents. Add to that the the terrorist that we've gone after intentionally hide among innocents knowing we won't risk hurting them. The two scenarios are on total opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

[AM64]

I kinda hope those Russian idiots send tens of thousands of troops against a well armed defense with heavy urban fortifications. The Ukrainians are gonna start stacking bodies if the Russians do it. This could be the move that breaks the defense but it will come at a very high cost.

Stalingrad v2? Bad times when you invade the other guy's turf and he has the means and will to fight. Too bad we don't simply see the invasion of a sovereign state as a reason to actively support them straight up. WW2 should have added some perspective there. Even declaring Ukraine as a no fly zone by the UN or NATO and enforcing it with no troops on Ukrainian or Russian soil would probably be the endgame for this. Risky, yes; but what in life isn't?

 

[InVOLuntary]

Keep that same energy as you think about the hundreds of thousands or possibly millions that we have killed, injured or displaced over the last 30 years to achieve whatever political (or commercial) goals we wanted to achieve in the ME. Don't just cry in your beer in 2022 over Ukraine. Let's cry for the lives ruined elsewhere in our name.

Or, don't even go that far. Look at what your country is doing to you and your fellow Americans right here. Our Constitution likely isn't worth the paper it's written on at this point, stolen elections, businesses shutdown by govt Karens, destruction of nuclear families, millions aborted since Roe v Wade, and a hollowed out economy where our industrial capacity was outsourced to one allegedly enemy (China) and our energy needs are having to be filled by another allegedly enemy (Russia).

You're so mad at me, yet give all of this other nonsense a pass. You have far more to be worried about than me or Putin.

There you go with your whataboutism. I'm not mad at you, I genuinely pitty you. I definitely don't fear you.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

you are using words to make a point; Putin is killing and has killed instead of using words.

you and he are not comparable in any form or fashion.

I find it interesting that we call Putin a killer or murderer. What do we call LBJ, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, both Bushes, Clinton Obama, Trump and Biden?

Oh, whataboutism.

 

[NEO]

He's intentionally targeting civilians. This is not collateral damage. Anyone that thinks it's collateral damage is extremely naive.

Honest question, have we ever intentionally drone striked a target that was surrounded by civilians? civilians we knew about? The answer is yes.

My stance is collateral damage and genocide are both evil as hell but we live in a world where countries can’t seem to get the F along.

I do think Putin has lost his mind and made a horrible tactical error. My biggest concern is are we getting the truth here. Soros is heavily backing Ukraine. That alone concerns me.

 

[NCFisher]

... but why did he hire Bolton in the first place? It doesn't make any sense.

According to Trump, he saw Bolton in the 'heavy' or bad cop role, and that gave him (Trump) an advantage in negotiations. His appointment heralded that Bolton was to be the NSC hatchet-man and purge NSC of Obama disciples. A task Bolton took on with enthusiasm.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Honest question, have we ever intentionally drone striked a target that was surrounded by civilians? civilians we knew about? The answer is yes.

My stance is collateral damage and genocide are both evil as hell but we live in a world where countries can’t seem to get the F along.

I do think Putin has lost his mind and made a horrible tactical error. My biggest concern is are we getting the truth here. Soros is heavily backing Ukraine. That alone concerns me.

Why do terrorists hide amongst the innocent?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

There you go with your whataboutism. I'm not mad at you, I genuinely pitty you.

Save your pity for the Ukrainians, Syrians, Iraqis, Libyans and Afghans... and Americans.