War in Ukraine

#12,776
#12,776
Pacer92 said:
The Minsk agreement was between Kiev and the Donbass...not Ukraine and Russia.

If Russian soldiers were there...half of the territory of Luhansk and Donetsk wouldn’t have been in Ukrainian hands as of a week ago.
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If I recall, demographic wise, it's close to 50% Russian 50% Ukrainian
 
#12,777
#12,777
Pacer92 said:
The Minsk agreement was between Kiev and the Donbass...not Ukraine and Russia.

If Russian soldiers were there...half of the territory of Luhansk and Donetsk wouldn’t have been in Ukrainian hands as of a week ago.
Click to expand...

I keep seeing excuse after excuse as to why Russia was in control of any region of Ukraine prior to this invasion.
 
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#12,779
#12,779
825VOL said:
I keep seeing excuse after excuse as to why Russia was in control of any region of Ukraine prior to this invasion.
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They weren’t in control. Had he recognized the two oblasts or annexed them like the Crimea before last week, you’d have a point...but you don’t.
 
#12,780
#12,780
Pacer92 said:
They weren’t in control. Had he recognized the two oblasts or annexed them like the Crimea before last week, you’d have a point...but you don’t.
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If the Russians were not in control, why were the Ukrainians shelling? Your circular reasoning needs some work
 
#12,782
#12,782
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
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Well, that was a very interesting breakdown. Unfortunately, it will be mostly ignored. A few points he brought up that I had either forgotten about or was unaware of:

1. William Burns, present CIA director and former ambassador to Russia, warned that further NATO expansion was a bad idea as far back as 1995.

2. The US rigged the Russian elections in 1996 to keep Yeltsin in power.

3. The Donbas held a referendum in 2015 and decided to join the Russian Federation, but Putin refused to accept them.

4. As recently as 2020, NATO claimed that their stated goals and justification for existing was... China. Yeah, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization was there to counter China.

5. In the 1990s, Lockheed pushed for NATO expansion as an excuse to either sell more jets to Eastern Europe or hang the costs of those planes on the American taxpayers.

6. Just like I had mentioned several times before, we have madmen running our foreign policy. It was noted that in the 1990s, Donald Rumsfeld would chose to launch a nuclear first strike in every scenario when given the option when playing war games.
 
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#12,783
#12,783
Rasputin_Vol said:
Well, that was a very interesting breakdown. Unfortunately, it will be mostly ignored. A few points he brought up that I had either forgotten about or was unaware of:

1. William Burns, present CIA director and former ambassador to Russia, warned that further NATO expansion was a bad idea as far back as 1995.

2. The US rigged the Russian elections in 1996 to keep Yeltsin in power.

3. The Donbas held a referendum in 2015 and decided to join the Russian Federation, but Putin refused to accept them.

4. As recently as 2020, NATO claimed that their stated goals and justification for existing was... China. Yeah, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization was there to counter China.

5. In the 1990s, Lockheed pushed for NATO expansion as an excuse to either sell more jets to Eastern Europe or hang the costs of those planes on the American taxpayers.

6. Just like I had mentioned several times before, we have madmen running our foreign policy. It was noted that in the 1990s, Donald Rumsfeld would chose to launch a nuclear first strike in every scenario when given the option when playing war games.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the education.

Putin murdering a country now seems totally reasonable.
 
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#12,787
#12,787
zeppelin128 said:
About 10-15% of them did in 2016. I'm not sure about the 2020 numbers.
Magic Grandpa and Trump are both different flavors of populism: there is some overlap between the two groups.
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Surprisingly, this is correct. Many Bernie supporters hate the establishment, and Trump in 2016 was as far from the establishment as you could get.
 
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#12,788
#12,788
Rasputin_Vol said:
Well, that was a very interesting breakdown. Unfortunately, it will be mostly ignored. A few points he brought up that I had either forgotten about or was unaware of:

1. William Burns, present CIA director and former ambassador to Russia, warned that further NATO expansion was a bad idea as far back as 1995.

2. The US rigged the Russian elections in 1996 to keep Yeltsin in power.

3. The Donbas held a referendum in 2015 and decided to join the Russian Federation, but Putin refused to accept them.

4. As recently as 2020, NATO claimed that their stated goals and justification for existing was... China. Yeah, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization was there to counter China.

5. In the 1990s, Lockheed pushed for NATO expansion as an excuse to either sell more jets to Eastern Europe or hang the costs of those planes on the American taxpayers.

6. Just like I had mentioned several times before, we have madmen running our foreign policy. It was noted that in the 1990s, Donald Rumsfeld would chose to launch a nuclear first strike in every scenario when given the option when playing war games.
Click to expand...

I suggest you put that to music and dance a jig to it.

c9ae85b4431228f0d59e2ab9e4515378.gif
 
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#12,796
#12,796
Burhead said:
Russian and Ukrainian forces are fighting at Europe’s largest nuclear plant and there is a fire that’s started.
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They have been trying to capture it for the past two nights. We thought they had it last night. They are attempting to take out power and infrastructure. If they get it and we see another "megaflash" I would be conserned.
 
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